Personally, I don't think the locked door textures appear often enough to make performance much of an issue (I suppose there are exceptions like maybe the key barriers on Map21 of Doom2, but in that case the surrounding is quite bare). It's not like there's entire maps decked out in DOORBLU.
Dday can place dynamic lights in 3D. For instance one can make a light decoration that is set to appear 1024 unit's in front of the material it is attached to.
Dday can also attach an infinite number of sub models to the main model; either can be set to full bright or not and either can have a dynamic light attached. For an example of sub models, have a look at Psy's Gargoyle model for Heretic; it uses two sub models for the Gargoyles eyes in order to make them full bright without making the body full bright. Another example would probably by the JDRP Imp's arm when it attacks.
You can do what you want with my textures, they are free to edit. If you want do some light shaders to them - thats super. Paste some screenshots of final result.
Now that's community spirit, if you can make it better then go ahead. If you can make it more to your liking then fine. I like your attitude. None of that "this is mine, don't touch it." stuff.
Personally, I don't think the locked door textures appear often enough to make performance much of an issue (I suppose there are exceptions like maybe the key barriers on Map21 of Doom2, but in that case the surrounding is quite bare).
Is Doomsday really still that unoptimized? With today's hardware, even if an entire map was decked out with that texture, it should still run smooth. For doomsday to be so performance sensitive, and it definitely still is when dynamic lights are enabled, is very sad, and means I often have to keep dynamic lights off regardless of how high end my hardware is. Hopefully this will be optimized soon.
While I agree with the sentiment that Doomsday needs to optimize the map renderer and the related systems like dynamic lights, the reality is that the nature of Doom maps make this a very tricky problem indeed. Doom maps (and by extension, the mechanics of the software renderer) are radically different to the way things are usually done in modern, hardware accelerated games. For example, Doom maps are "hyper-dynamic", meaning that absolutely any part of the map can and does change shape significantly, without any sort of warning. This means that in order to fully exploit such high end hardware the map renderer and the map data must be completely redesigned from the ground up.
Things are definitely progressing on that front but one must bear in mind that this is happening within the context of the total 2.0 redesign of Doomsday, which, is also being done on a published project while maintaining regular releases. We can't simply focus on the map renderer and ignore the rest because we'll probably end up in the same situation again a few years from now. Doomsday is a very complex system that must be "grown organically" in order to scale up to the sort of graphical fidelity we all want to see
@Vermil, yeah I suppose it would be fine to have as many as 8 dyno lights per doorlight trim piece. If it turns out that users have issues, the amount could always be lowered. I was just suggesting a lower amount as it would just seem like a lot of dyno lights to be displayed at a given time, but I see your point.
I got to thinking, if a texture patch has been tiled 8 times through TEXTURE lump, specifically like the door light textures do in Doom, eg:
Wouldn't it be possible to relate those separate patch id's and y,x coordinates in a material decoration? ~ so that for example a dyno light could also map to patch cords "if wanted", aside from how it's normally done on a single texture face, where most textures only have a single patch id and coordinate?
I'd imagine the decoration would have something to the nature of:
Doomsday can't attach dynamic lights (or anything) to patches I'm afraid, only completed textures. Requests to be able do things with texture patches have been made though: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1832#topic
Hey, not super concerned about performance though, curious as to if people might take a performance hit when 16 dyno's are displayed at a given time. However, it looks good and I'm good with it If you think it will be okay.
I'll have to check out the pattern skip, not for performance but to test out its offset. With the normal offset, no matter what I do, the lights tend to always want to cast to the left a little, more so than the right. Will check out pattern skip horizontal offsets to see if it cures this issue though.
The patch idea was just an idea, obviously others have thought about it in the past.
Will check it out.
Edit:
Ah I see, basically the same idea although mine was more on a material key/stage level. ~ mostly just to grab patch id for predefined cords, specifically just for light decoration though.
Other thoughts, I can't wait until brightmaps are finally plugged in to DE. This on top of all the other features will be a really nice addition. Especially with small animations, eg simple scan lines or a cursor blinking on some of the comp/space monitors, and look as part of the game, aside of having small lights tapped into the doors and tekwalls etc. Such subtle additions could really bring new life to the old maps.
That said, it is Doom and should continue to look like Doom. ~ brightmap effects should be handled with care..
Speaking of Doom looking like Doom, not to get off topic, but Doom 4 teaser video is official, incase people here didn't know (I found this a week ago): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiXdIwrYw1s
You can do what you want with my textures, they are free to edit. If you want do some light shaders to them - thats super. Paste some screenshots of final result.
Now that's community spirit, if you can make it better then go ahead. If you can make it more to your liking then fine. I like your attitude. None of that "this is mine, don't touch it." stuff.
Well I don't plan on doing anything with Reinchards textures, but I'd like to attach some dynamic lights to them so they will be easier to see and well, also show up in the dark.
Basically just going to post some scripts for them and the skull door lights..so hopefully they will be lit up when the next pack comes out.
Speaking of Doom looking like Doom, not to get off topic, but Doom 4 teaser video is official, incase people here didn't know (I found this a week ago): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiXdIwrYw1s
Also yes, the Doom4 teaser, looks pretty awesome! I noticed it around June 20th when I visited http://www.idsoftware.com
I'm hoping to hear more about it in the next couple of weeks!
Doom looking like Doom is good if it is more realistic, but will it ultimately look like the following and is it even possible to evolve Doomsday to make it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulJCYES5Do
Doom looking like Doom is good if it is more realistic, but will it ultimately look like the following and is it even possible to evolve Doomsday to make it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulJCYES5Do
I think DE could look like that, well it practically already does!
Although, for the pinky demon, I think DE would at least need support for md5 models heh.
With the normal offset, no matter what I do, the lights tend to always want to cast to the left a little, more so than the right. Will check out pattern skip horizontal offsets to see if it cures this issue though.
Note that the offset fields for Doomsday's light decorations are done in the following way and also support decimal places:
0,1,2,3 etc are the edges of a pixel (i.e between two pixels) and 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 etc are the centre of a pixel. Naturally, you can use any decimal value you wish.
The offset's are also done from the top left corner.
Doom looking like Doom is good if it is more realistic, but will it ultimately look like the following and is it even possible to evolve Doomsday to make it like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulJCYES5Do
It looks good, but I had to LOL at 'hand made' manual ambient occlusion.
@Vermil,
Will check it out and try to pen point the locations for them and try to shift all those dyons over to the left a bit this week or next weekend, I'v just been really busy this last weekend.
It really should just be as simple as a 128x64 texture centered at 64x32 or in this case a 8x128 = 4x64. however, you might think the texture lights on the doorred/blu/yel texture is displayed 8 times on a 8x128, although each light having about 3 maybe 4 pixels between them, 4x8 unit parts, 3-4 unit separation. that's the math, but it tends not to match just right. I have not yet figured out why they want to shift to the left.. But really I just haven't had the time to get back to it heh.
Gary, thread died? wtf hopefully not?
A thread dyeing only has to do with lack of interest, the thread being closed by the project being finished, or random lame users forcing the development of it to be pushed elsewhere (so the project can take hold somewhere else).But I doubt that any of the above issues would need be considered.
As said, development takes time and of course, that is part of development.
Hang in there, all will be fine..to the very end.
I don't plan on doing the zzz_wolf textures however, but soon.. I think that those will only be the ones that need to be recreated.
~ although, I must say that I think that the skull switches could stand to look better. ~ As most of the textures seem to look pretty good/pretty close to the original. Feel free to post up if you feel that some should be reconsidered.
It is just that in some forums and maybe even here, a WIP gets posted in a thread and the thread goes on to post updates or talk about it sometimes for a while, then the thread dies down and eventually goes dormant and some things never get done. I have seen this happen on several WIP that involve models or even campaigns (the Doom equivalent would be a megawad). In another forum and even here, this has happened. Another classic occurrence is they set release dates only to keep pushing them back and go years without release, if ever. These were concerns that I was addressing.
Fact is, in life, things often don't go as planned, and when they do, not when you expect, so I try not to get my hopes up too high.
Since I saw the frequency of posts in this thread declining (dying down), the concern of it dying down did cross my mind. But when you posted, I was acknowledging that it is good the thread or WIP has not died, at least not yet.
I won't let it die, I am always interested in textures and 3d models for doom, but I can't do everything at once and switch between them. If one day i want to stop, I will pass it on.
I wouldn't want the project to die either, I appreciate the concern as well. although I doubt that anything will die here, it only has to do with being completed, really.
I anticipate the final days of this project and have been following it for years, however I have the feeling that the last versions of it having to do with the secret wolf levels 30-32 textures of Doom2. I'm not sure why yet that no one wants to do them, though I'm hoping that the artist(s) will keep in mind that those textures should' lean towards (both the "old and new" versions of Wolfenstein) just so everyone will fill comfortable with them.
I'm still beavering away at this stuff. As I have said before, the sad fact is that CGI artists need to pay mortgages and food bills and car insurance.
Sadly, my bosses aren't very understanding when I tell them that I have to put their work to one side to do Doom textures and models. I know, it sucks. :-(
If you really want to speed things up, I can supply you with my contracting rates*. Until such time, it's a case of "When it's done".
* ... and no, I'm not being sarcastic. I've worked on a Doom pack for a client before.
Looks good KuriKai, I suggest that the lava flat have a slight glow/light decoration if it doesn't already.
And the blood and water flats only have a very slight, soft glow to them if possible. ~ only so they will be slightly visible in the dark.. ~ Iv added this sort of effect for some tech4 mods I'v worked on and it helps, the effect is only slightly visible in really dark sectors areas in this case.
Good luck Tea Monster, would love to see more work from you!
I'm still beavering away at this stuff. As I have said before, the sad fact is that CGI artists need to pay mortgages and food bills and car insurance.
Sadly, my bosses aren't very understanding when I tell them that I have to put their work to one side to do Doom textures and models. I know, it sucks. :-(
Until the robotic revolution forces change. It is the only hope for us to abandon this barbaric system and so much talk lately of a universal basic income and robots. I assume much change will happen in the next 2 to 3 decades. You should link my article to your bosses and the countless other articles on the net. Marshall Brain is a good guy to quote and has a nice video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxxL0EcpvdQ
he started it. I replied. by the way, over the years on some other forums, I was an expert at going off topic. Some forums are more tolerant, but it can be one reason why they either close a topic or suspend the person. Talking about artists, mortgages, bosses, and jobs is off topic too, yet I'm singled out.
Let me know if you'd like for me to make some light decorations for the lava when you get to it.
Aside from the blood or water which should only need (very little) lighting.
Comments
Dday can place dynamic lights in 3D. For instance one can make a light decoration that is set to appear 1024 unit's in front of the material it is attached to.
Dday can also attach an infinite number of sub models to the main model; either can be set to full bright or not and either can have a dynamic light attached. For an example of sub models, have a look at Psy's Gargoyle model for Heretic; it uses two sub models for the Gargoyles eyes in order to make them full bright without making the body full bright. Another example would probably by the JDRP Imp's arm when it attacks.
Things are definitely progressing on that front but one must bear in mind that this is happening within the context of the total 2.0 redesign of Doomsday, which, is also being done on a published project while maintaining regular releases. We can't simply focus on the map renderer and ignore the rest because we'll probably end up in the same situation again a few years from now. Doomsday is a very complex system that must be "grown organically" in order to scale up to the sort of graphical fidelity we all want to see
I got to thinking, if a texture patch has been tiled 8 times through TEXTURE lump, specifically like the door light textures do in Doom, eg:
Wouldn't it be possible to relate those separate patch id's and y,x coordinates in a material decoration? ~ so that for example a dyno light could also map to patch cords "if wanted", aside from how it's normally done on a single texture face, where most textures only have a single patch id and coordinate?
I'd imagine the decoration would have something to the nature of:
Unique_IDs in this case being the lookup key.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1832#topic
That said, Doomsday's light decoration definitions do have the 'Pattern skip' field, if you are concerned about performance:
http://www.dengine.net/dew/index.php?title=Decoration
I'll have to check out the pattern skip, not for performance but to test out its offset. With the normal offset, no matter what I do, the lights tend to always want to cast to the left a little, more so than the right. Will check out pattern skip horizontal offsets to see if it cures this issue though.
The patch idea was just an idea, obviously others have thought about it in the past.
Will check it out.
Edit:
Ah I see, basically the same idea although mine was more on a material key/stage level. ~ mostly just to grab patch id for predefined cords, specifically just for light decoration though.
Other thoughts, I can't wait until brightmaps are finally plugged in to DE. This on top of all the other features will be a really nice addition. Especially with small animations, eg simple scan lines or a cursor blinking on some of the comp/space monitors, and look as part of the game, aside of having small lights tapped into the doors and tekwalls etc. Such subtle additions could really bring new life to the old maps.
That said, it is Doom and should continue to look like Doom. ~ brightmap effects should be handled with care..
Thanks
Well I don't plan on doing anything with Reinchards textures, but I'd like to attach some dynamic lights to them so they will be easier to see and well, also show up in the dark.
Basically just going to post some scripts for them and the skull door lights..so hopefully they will be lit up when the next pack comes out.
Also yes, the Doom4 teaser, looks pretty awesome! I noticed it around June 20th when I visited http://www.idsoftware.com
I'm hoping to hear more about it in the next couple of weeks!
Cheers
Although, for the pinky demon, I think DE would at least need support for md5 models heh.
0,1,2,3 etc are the edges of a pixel (i.e between two pixels) and 0.5, 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 etc are the centre of a pixel. Naturally, you can use any decimal value you wish.
The offset's are also done from the top left corner.
Will check it out and try to pen point the locations for them and try to shift all those dyons over to the left a bit this week or next weekend, I'v just been really busy this last weekend.
It really should just be as simple as a 128x64 texture centered at 64x32 or in this case a 8x128 = 4x64. however, you might think the texture lights on the doorred/blu/yel texture is displayed 8 times on a 8x128, although each light having about 3 maybe 4 pixels between them, 4x8 unit parts, 3-4 unit separation. that's the math, but it tends not to match just right. I have not yet figured out why they want to shift to the left.. But really I just haven't had the time to get back to it heh.
Thanks
A thread dyeing only has to do with lack of interest, the thread being closed by the project being finished, or random lame users forcing the development of it to be pushed elsewhere (so the project can take hold somewhere else).But I doubt that any of the above issues would need be considered.
As said, development takes time and of course, that is part of development.
Hang in there, all will be fine..to the very end.
I don't plan on doing the zzz_wolf textures however, but soon.. I think that those will only be the ones that need to be recreated.
~ although, I must say that I think that the skull switches could stand to look better.
Fact is, in life, things often don't go as planned, and when they do, not when you expect, so I try not to get my hopes up too high.
Since I saw the frequency of posts in this thread declining (dying down), the concern of it dying down did cross my mind. But when you posted, I was acknowledging that it is good the thread or WIP has not died, at least not yet.
I anticipate the final days of this project and have been following it for years, however I have the feeling that the last versions of it having to do with the secret wolf levels 30-32 textures of Doom2. I'm not sure why yet that no one wants to do them, though I'm hoping that the artist(s) will keep in mind that those textures should' lean towards (both the "old and new" versions of Wolfenstein) just so everyone will fill comfortable with them.
Sadly, my bosses aren't very understanding when I tell them that I have to put their work to one side to do Doom textures and models. I know, it sucks. :-(
If you really want to speed things up, I can supply you with my contracting rates*. Until such time, it's a case of "When it's done".
* ... and no, I'm not being sarcastic. I've worked on a Doom pack for a client before.
Looks good KuriKai, I suggest that the lava flat have a slight glow/light decoration if it doesn't already.
And the blood and water flats only have a very slight, soft glow to them if possible. ~ only so they will be slightly visible in the dark.. ~ Iv added this sort of effect for some tech4 mods I'v worked on and it helps, the effect is only slightly visible in really dark sectors areas in this case.
Good luck Tea Monster, would love to see more work from you!
Cheers!
Added a bit of detail
What would it look like with a bit of bubbles here and there?
I know a flat is a flat, the bubbles I suggest would look as if they are blended/underneath rather than on top.
Until the robotic revolution forces change. It is the only hope for us to abandon this barbaric system and so much talk lately of a universal basic income and robots. I assume much change will happen in the next 2 to 3 decades. You should link my article to your bosses and the countless other articles on the net. Marshall Brain is a good guy to quote and has a nice video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxxL0EcpvdQ
Let me know if you'd like for me to make some light decorations for the lava when you get to it.
Aside from the blood or water which should only need (very little) lighting.
Cheers