Modelling for Newbies....

edited 2011 Dec 13 in Tools and Techniques
Found the following site:
http://www.quake2.com/modeling/

Seems good. I know little about modelling, but i'm interested to get into it. Just wondering if any experts in the forums have anything of note from the above site :)

Also, to the devs, whats the estimated timespan for MD3 models do you think? I read about the whole vertex optimized DMD format and all that and also read the blog... I think I know enough about modelling to realize that full MD3 support would be AWESOME.

EDIT: Links for Modelling-related resources-
MilkShape 3D: http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch (Commercial US$35, free trial available, seems powerful)
Blender: http://www.blender.org/ (Open Source, leading-edge modelling suite for the world of free-as-in-speech, but apparently has problems when exporting to the older MD2 format)
EDIT: KuriKai: blender 2.4.9a has no problems exporting into the md2 format
Misfit Model 3D (MM3D): http://www.misfitcode.com/misfitmodel3d/ (Open Source, relatively immature but very fast and worth a look. (Supports PNG-textured MD2's that Doomsday uses)
Quake 2 Modeler version 0.9: http://abbs.jbserver.com/downloads/editing/q2mdlr90.zip (Freeware) (Does NOT support the PNG-textured MD2's that Doomsday can use)
Quake 2 Modeler version 0.91: http://abbs.jbserver.com/downloads/editing/q2mdlr91.zip (Freeware) (Does NOT support the PNG-textured MD2's that Doomsday can use)
Npherno's Skin Tool version 0.9 beta 3: http://www.filefront.com/Nphernos+skin+ ... einfo.html (Freeware)

Comments

  • OK, i've got a slight problem. I tried a few MD2 Viewers, but havn't found any that can do even one of these things:

    1) Load the associated Texture/Skin automatically when opening an MD2 model (need to browse manually, quite annoying)
    2) One that supports PNG textures, or PCX textures greater than 256 colors

    If anyone knows of a a good viewer that can do that, let me know.
  • edited 2009 Jul 20
    I'll basically post what I posted on the newdoom.com forums in order to help you with the modelling with added snippets or links. Mind you that this was a followup to a problem with blender's md2 exporter - not sure if it's fixed, but if it is, half of the steps are unnecessary...

    I'd recommend first-off that you use Blender for modelling, since it has more than all of the features of the older programs on the site you've found, and plus since you'd most likely be using bone animation, you can save the original file and re-animate later on if needbe. Here goes...

    OK! I found an easy (but step-filled) method that worked for me on exporting the animated models as MD2s:

    I'm using Blender 2.46, and so I'm not sure if anyone tried md2 or md3 export with this, but I have trouble because it doesn't want to export animations, even though it says it will. I've used vertex keys and bone animation, along with shapekeys... None of them have worked, and in the case of vertex keys, it wipes them out when converting, and in the case of bones, it screws the model. I even tested it with a simple, extruded box model with MINIMAL requirements.

    Blender can be found (and is like THE best free modelling software I've seen) at http://www.blender.org/
    To learn either use the manual on that site, on wiki.blender.org, or go here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3Dvf_Noob_to_Pro
    That last one makes it very easy to get started.

    KuriKai sent me the link to this MD3 exporter:

    EDIT: Fixed this link
    http://xreal.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc ... l/blender/

    You'll need to stick these in your .blender/scripts folder:

    md3.py
    md3_export.py
    md3_import.py
    q_math.py
    q_shared.py


    Then, I found a linux-developed modeller under the GNU public license called Misfit Model 3D. The developer version 1.3.7 has some new import/export filetypes, including .md3!

    EDIT: Fixed this link
    http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=610625

    So if you're on Linux, this is good for you too!
    Thankfully, the import/export did not seem to be unstable, as it worked on the first try!
    I was able to export-import-export as follows with NO problems:

    blender>md3>misfit model3d>md2 and then into Quake 2 Modeller to see if it checked out, and it was fine.
  • Hey thanks for that reply :)

    You know, it's funny - even before I joined these forums, and I have never really done 3D Modelling before, but I already have working and ready-to-go installs of both the latest Blender and MM3D the same two programs you referenced :crazy:

    Blender is definately a nice program, but It's a little overkill for a model viewer. However it's definately the best Open-Source modelling tool there is, i've seen some of the work done in it and it's amazing.

    But MM3D is a great little Model Viewer - it loads very fast and I have it associated with my MD2 models. It works fine on my Windows machine, I am going to build the latest dev build with MinGW soon. I noticed though that Plugin support is currently not present on Windows, and that's a real shame for the MD2 plugin that does fancy triangle optimizing.

    I'm curious though... why are you talking about MD3 scripts and stuff? Or do the MD3 scripts for Blender have backwards compatibility with MD2 aswell? iD Tech 3 engine models are not supported in Doomsday sadly (yet) so I hope that doesn't create over-complex or otherwise unsupported/non-standard/inefficient models :?

    EDIT: Not a major issue as I already have them, but I noticed your last two links are buggered - the ... are literally in the URL hyperlink :shock: I wonder how that happened?

    EDIT2: [Rant]I've been browsing the hires texture pack out of interest, and you know what I thought...? If Doomsday supported Meshed Textures (i.e. 3D walls, stuff sticking out as if they were 'real' bricks, animated wire sparks or blood dripping, etc)... that'd be epic enough to propel Doomsday to a major 2.0 :yay: If the engine supported it, it'd be hell easy to convert some of the existing textures to meshes with depth-map capabilities of Photoshop CS4...
  • edited 2009 Jul 23
    JonusC wrote:
    I'm curious though... why are you talking about MD3 scripts and stuff? Or do the MD3 scripts for Blender have backwards compatibility with MD2 aswell? iD Tech 3 engine models are not supported in Doomsday sadly (yet) so I hope that doesn't create over-complex or otherwise unsupported/non-standard/inefficient models

    Well, it was a follow-up to a post where there was a problem with MD2 export for Blender on the build that I was using. The best way I found was to export to MD3, then go to MD2 from there. MM3D takes care of the MD2 well enough so that it doesn't have any problems once it's MD2-exported.
    JonusC wrote:
    EDIT: Not a major issue as I already have them, but I noticed your last two links are buggered - the ... are literally in the URL hyperlink I wonder how that happened?

    Fixed now, and I couldn't have done it without you! :D
    JonusC wrote:
    EDIT2: [Rant]I've been browsing the hires texture pack out of interest, and you know what I thought...? If Doomsday supported Meshed Textures (i.e. 3D walls, stuff sticking out as if they were 'real' bricks, animated wire sparks or blood dripping, etc)... that'd be epic enough to propel Doomsday to a major 2.0 If the engine supported it, it'd be hell easy to convert some of the existing textures to meshes with depth-map capabilities of Photoshop CS4...

    Well you know, I think there was something along those lines going on. If nothing else, perhaps plugins for the new 2.0 could be written to allow for displacement-mapped textures or something. The idea I get from the whole setup with how it's going to be in 2.0 is that the floor will be open for customized shaders/GLSL plugins?(anyone FEEL FREE TO CORRECT/REDIRECT ME - it's just the impression I got) You could just make particle definitions for the sparks and dripping blood, except you can't get it automatically generated at certain texture points I think!
  • JonusC wrote:
    Also, to the devs, whats the estimated timespan for MD3 models do you think?
    I can say that MD3 models (or some other more modern format -- though MD3 is the leading candidate atm) are 100% definitely on the roadmap. When we've sorted out the critical issues and can move forward with revising the renderer, the model format is one of the first things to get an update.
  • skyjake wrote:
    JonusC wrote:
    Also, to the devs, whats the estimated timespan for MD3 models do you think?
    I can say that MD3 models (or some other more modern format -- though MD3 is the leading candidate atm) are 100% definitely on the roadmap. When we've sorted out the critical issues and can move forward with revising the renderer, the model format is one of the first things to get an update.

    May i suggest OBJ, from Wavefront Technologies, its seems to be a very supported format.
    But i'm not sure how to attach an skeleton animation to it, if thats even possible.
    But it defently support specular mapping, witch is one of the things i have missed mostly
  • Psychikon wrote:
    Well, it was a follow-up to a post where there was a problem with MD2 export for Blender on the build that I was using. The best way I found was to export to MD3, then go to MD2 from there. MM3D takes care of the MD2 well enough so that it doesn't have any problems once it's MD2-exported.
    MM3D seems fast and capable enough for basic models but it's interface is kind of... archaic? Frustrating? Also i'm not sure if some of the textures for certain MD2 models are mapped correctly (example: Brain Stem or something like that from the jDRP v1.01)
    Psychikon wrote:
    Fixed now, and I couldn't have done it without you! :D
    Oh Psychikon... *epic romance music* :lol:
    Psychikon wrote:
    Well you know, I think there was something along those lines going on. If nothing else, perhaps plugins for the new 2.0 could be written to allow for displacement-mapped textures or something. The idea I get from the whole setup with how it's going to be in 2.0 is that the floor will be open for customized shaders/GLSL plugins?(anyone FEEL FREE TO CORRECT/REDIRECT ME - it's just the impression I got) You could just make particle definitions for the sparks and dripping blood, except you can't get it automatically generated at certain texture points I think!
    We could actually do it now I realized, although quite inelligantly. Doomsday apparently supports using models as Things right, so you could do some dodgy map placement to "stick" a model against a wall :P I'f I get experienced enough at modding before Doomsday drastically updates, i'll probably give it a go :evil:
    Batteryman wrote:
    May i suggest OBJ, from Wavefront Technologies, its seems to be a very supported format.
    But i'm not sure how to attach an skeleton animation to it, if thats even possible.
    But it defently support specular mapping, witch is one of the things i have missed mostly
    Yeah I just looked that up, it's an open format just like MD3 is now (I believe so anyway as Quake 3 is open source right?) but OBJ is probably more advanced... I dunno of course, just pondering :P I've seen that most of the freeware/opensource modelling tools support OBJ's though, but a few still dont support MD3. But I guess in the end, it's a matter of how easy it is for the Dev's to implement it, and how fast it'll be, and what they'd prefer to bugfix for :party:
  • JonusC wrote:
    Batteryman wrote:
    May i suggest OBJ, from Wavefront Technologies, its seems to be a very supported format.
    But i'm not sure how to attach an skeleton animation to it, if thats even possible.
    But it defently support specular mapping, witch is one of the things i have missed mostly
    Yeah I just looked that up, it's an open format just like MD3 is now (I believe so anyway as Quake 3 is open source right?) but OBJ is probably more advanced... I dunno of course, just pondering :P I've seen that most of the freeware/opensource modelling tools support OBJ's though, but a few still dont support MD3. But I guess in the end, it's a matter of how easy it is for the Dev's to implement it, and how fast it'll be, and what they'd prefer to bugfix for :party:

    Well its seems OBJ is the standar use also for open-source modelling and payware
    I think there are many benefit for OBJ rather than MD3, but still the skeleton animation concern me, since i only have use mesh files, for transporting from application to application.
  • There is a another model format that should be considering, COLLADA model format, witch support:

  • edited 2009 Jul 23
    Batteryman wrote:
    Well its seems OBJ is the standard use also for open-source modelling and payware
    I think there are many benefit for OBJ rather than MD3, but still the skeleton animation concern me, since i only have use mesh files, for transporting from application to application.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    The OBJ file format is a simple data-format that represents 3D geometry alone
  • You quoted the wrong person in that first quote Psychikon, it was Batteryman who said that :clown:

    No idea what the Wikipedia snippet talks about (i'm not too experienced) but why is that no place for us? The MD2 is 3D geometry alone aswell I thought, the textures are applied via an external file... obviously i'm missing something.

    In regards to implementing a new model format, I might direct the readers to the Roadmap page of the Wiki. The new Model Format is scheduled for a post 2.0 feature (that is, after 1.9.x Beta hits 2.0 Final). It would require the new Rendering subsystem as the current architecture is based on the very first code written for the original JHexen.

    From http://dengine.net/dew/index.php?title= ... _subsystem ...
    - It will need to be rewritten from scratch to work with the new libdeng2;
    - Current rendering engine isn't even OpenGL 2.0 so anything more complex than MD2 will be a massive f*ck around (this I know definately);

    Also, the lighting on MD3 models would really suck with the current engine.

    I think my point here is that, hypothetically, if MD3 or OBJ or whatever better model support was inmplemented before the renderer re-write, it'd look and run like shit. If it'd even work at all. OpenGL 1.x is just too archaic to work with and it's unrealistic to code a feature thats around five years ahead of it's core tech.

    Correct me if i'm wrong there, please feel free to. But I think the serious talk of new Model formats is best left of when Deng2 is finished and work on the new render engine goes into full swing :thumb:

    EDIT: Personally, I think a BSP (or better) map format support would be much more exciting than a new model format :P

    Getting back on topic, what program would you guys recommend that supports MD2 well, in addition to other possible-future formats? It'd be nice to practice and learn in a program and not have to completly change our software :P So far i'm gonna go with what was said; either Blender or MM3D. I'd like to know what other people think though :)
  • JonusC wrote:

    Getting back on topic, what program would you guys recommend that supports MD2 well, in addition to other possible-future formats? It'd be nice to practice and learn in a program and not have to completly change our software :P So far i'm gonna go with what was said; either Blender or MM3D. I'd like to know what other people think though :)

    I personally use any application, but i do the final tweak whit Milkshape, and i think its a good tool for its purpose. and it whasnt very expensive
  • Well I just trashed that other reply accidentally... let me sum up!
    MD2s have frames with relative positions for the vertices in each one, whereas OBJs only have a single "frame". You would therefore have to have an entire .obj file for each frame, which would make extra UV waste data, extra waste texture data, etc. Also, it'd be more difficult to manage.

    I wouldn't push the idea of using Blender if I didn't believe that it'd be best for anyone who isn't using a professional program, as I've seen it to be the most versatile free program, handling the most file types. It has scripting abilities to where, if you want to, you can write your own import/export scripts. I was only saying about MM3D because of the MD2 export bug in that release of Blender. I didn't want to backtrack to a previous (compatible) version, as it didn't have shapekeys (in the same way), which I was using in the model. :D

    I was only suggesting about a modified version of the DMD format because I forgot that it almost definitely stores the vertices in the same way that MD2 does - in a matrix. So it'd be impossible to have them as floats, unless they were scaled proportionally within that matrix. Even if it did, I bet the engine reads them specifically as bytes or chars, so it wouldn't read it properly. If I understand that dev like I did previously, however, then there is a hint that it DOES read them in properly and the dmd2 format would only have to be as such so that md2tool could properly mess with it, but as long as everything is in order otherwise, you might not need a new format, just a tweaked one, compatible with the engine as it is. If it was possible, I would do it myself - it's just that I wanted to know if it WAS possible, that's all.

    There were new map possibilities talked about I remember earlier on... DaniJ had posted a screenshot or two of a multiple-floor setup I think in the rocket launcher room on Doom2-Map01 if my memory serves me correctly. All of these things are on the way, but it's taking some time. I really like the idea of the bias lighting system and all of that. I was trying to mess around with the in-game editor a couple months back, and I thought that was neat too...
  • JonusC wrote:
    Found the following site:
    http://www.quake2.com/modeling/

    Anyone interested in going to the site should look for the more updated versions of the most useful files there. They are here:

    Quake 2 Modeler version 0.9: http://abbs.jbserver.com/downloads/editing/q2mdlr90.zip

    Quake 2 Modeler version 0.91: http://abbs.jbserver.com/downloads/editing/q2mdlr91.zip

    Npherno's Skin Tool version 0.9 beta 3: http://www.filefront.com/Nphernos+skin+ ... einfo.html
  • thanks for those links, i managed to find .9.1 after googling already but will update my first post with new links.

    I found that using Misfit Model 3D as a simple viewer is better though in my opinion. It still loads fast, and the Q2 Viewer wont load PNG textured md2 models (such as those from jDRP v1.1 alpha)
  • The only reason I probably don't use it now and am reverted to Q2M is that I'm not familiar with it. I was using Q2M to split the gargoyle model up into different meshes for the head skin, the wings skin, and the body skin. Also the eyes separately for animated eyes, and the hand separately (ala DaniJ's imp) so that the fire particles would follow the hand as he chucked the fireball. Also, I couldn't seem to figure out how to properly write a framelist for Bob Holcomb's .md2 exporter for Blender, and I didn't find any information on it. With Q2M, you just import a text file with, for instance, "Idle00" on line 1, "Idle01" on line 2, etc. etc. The only drawback is that it doesn't read in the last line, so you've got to put an extra junk line in or something. Md2tool can make an empty .md2 based on a framelist, but I don't understand how I would be able to utilize that. :(
    I probably should learn MM3D or something, because Q2M is kind of difficult to see what you're doing in. I would have just exported them separately to begin with, but it would recalculate the space for each .md2, and then there would be little seams in all the separate parts. :(
  • I see what you mean. I guess the conclusion of that is that MD2 modelling has become fairly tedious due to it's age then, pretty much?

    Is that the red Gargoyle in the Heretic Model Pack now? Nice work there! I havn't seen Heretic for a while, but I remember noticing the Heretic (and some Hexen) models were of a higher quality to the Doom effort (IMHO).

    What makes MM3D different though is that it is still active in development, I asked about the Plugin system progress for Windows on the official forums. Q2M is pretty much dead I would guess. Psychikon, are you the one who referenced the Milkshape 3D software? If so, how would you compare it to MM3D (despite it being a commercial product)
  • JonusC wrote:
    I see what you mean. I guess the conclusion of that is that MD2 modelling has become fairly tedious due to it's age then, pretty much?

    Yeah, it's not the highest priority I would think in the worldwide modelling/gaming community as a whole. I mean, we're just a couple steps away from chucking it ourselves!
    JonusC wrote:
    Is that the red Gargoyle in the Heretic Model Pack now? Nice work there! I havn't seen Heretic for a while, but I remember noticing the Heretic (and some Hexen) models were of a higher quality to the Doom effort (IMHO).

    Yes, sir! Thank you... Back a long time ago when it was just Quake 2 Modeler I was familiar with, I did some of the crappier ones as well... :( Back then, Slyrr was doing well with most of them, though. :) The Doom ones I think are older as well, most of them. In any case, DaniJ had, before becoming a dev, worked on a bunch of stuff for a new jDoom Resource Pack. The screenshots I remember seeing were spectacular, but I think the reason it was halted was because the engine was limited and perhaps they wouldn't have been able to be pulled off to his liking with the current setup. I'll admit that it would be nice to have the player models be set up like the Quake III player models once everything gets squared away. It'd be kind of akward to have the best-looking port with better models and they still look straight ahead while shooting upwards and downwards!
    JonusC wrote:
    What makes MM3D different though is that it is still active in development, I asked about the Plugin system progress for Windows on the official forums. Q2M is pretty much dead I would guess. Psychikon, are you the one who referenced the Milkshape 3D software? If so, how would you compare it to MM3D (despite it being a commercial product)
    Well the bug in the .md2 export for Blender I guess was fixed in the last release, 'cause I was having a problem with 2.48, yet with 2.49a it's working perfectly for me. I also figured out (by finding a FRENCH .pdf file) how to write a framelist for export in case you didn't want the 198-frame Quake II default framelist.
    Because of all of that, I stopped with any attempts to learn MM3D, but by all means work with that and Milkshape 3D if you like. It was monsieur BatteryMan who recommended Milkshape 3D.

    EDIT: To make a framelist to export an MD2 by means of the NLA strip animations without having to use the default, you'll need to write a plain text file with the proper header, and then a name for the frames, followed by the number of frames of that "name" you'd like, all in successive order. Doing it this way only makes enough frames for the amount of frames that you have listed. For some reason, Blender wants to export an extra duplicate frame at the beginning. If it happens to you, just add a junk line with "1" after, as follows in the following template:
    # MD2 Frame Name List
    DeleteMe 1
    Cheer 12
    Buttkick 5
    whatever 1
    

    The first line is the header, the second line makes 1 frame called "DeleteMe_1". It numbers the frames according to the number it makes. The third line will name the following frames "Cheer_1" through "Cheer_12". The fourth continues to name the next five ones "Buttkick_1" through "Buttkick_5". The last one is a single "whatever_1" frame. Using a zero seems to cause an error whenever I've tried it.
  • Batteryman wrote:
    There is a another model format that should be considering, COLLADA model format, witch support:
  • hellrazor wrote:
    Correct me if I'm wrong here, but since you were all on the topic of Blender and custom importers/exporters, couldn't you/we make our own? I'm experienced with both Blender and Python, and it wouldn't be too hard to get most of those features in, and since I could make it SUPER-simplistic to get the data, it would be not only faster to read, but easier to use.
    I'm only suggesting this because I'm kinda working on my own FPS
    (http://www.gameblender.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=869&start=20) and I kind of need a new file type too, and it wouldn't be too hard to get it to work for both of them (since I'm already on it :D).

    Get on it, son! :)) The Deng devs would probably like that idea, it'd save using the MD2-To-DMD commandline tool. If you wrote a DMD Importer/Exporter for Blender, basing it off the existing MD2 ones, that'd be pretty handy. The source for the MD2-To-DMD commandline tool is on the Sourceforge project page.

    If it'll be too much work though, don't stress about it :)

    Said DMD Importer/Exporter, if created, can always be updated as the DMD format evolves. Would you maintain it though? Creating this might actually help the evolution/improvement of the DMD format since it would no longer be restricted by the MD2 format it's based on.

    EDIT: I never knew Blender had it's own Game Engine :-O
  • JonusC wrote:
    Said DMD Importer/Exporter, if created, can always be updated as the DMD format evolves. Would you maintain it though? Creating this might actually help the evolution/improvement of the DMD format since it would no longer be restricted by the MD2 format it's based on.
    Just got to remember that converting to an MD2 is somewhat lossy... Importing a DMD, you'd inherit all of those errors, but the exporting of a DMD might be particularly effectual. Especially since all of the LOD etc. commands could be put into a small GUI box or whatever.
  • Psychikon wrote:
    Just got to remember that converting to an MD2 is somewhat lossy... Importing a DMD, you'd inherit all of those errors, but the exporting of a DMD might be particularly effectual. Especially since all of the LOD etc. commands could be put into a small GUI box or whatever.

    Yeah, that's what I mean. See, think about it - if there were an actual in/out filter for Blender, branched off the MD2 one for instance, that's one step closer to a gradual improvement of the Doomsday model format - it's effectively isolating a barrier by moving closer towards eliminating the MD2 base. If a new feature is introduced in the Doomsday engine that affects or adds onto the modelling system, the Blender plugin could be updated to utilize it.

    I understand that the actual code might not be as forgiving, but in the broad and literal sense it sounds like a good sort of step to take.
  • JonusC wrote:
    Yeah, that's what I mean. See, think about it - if there were an actual in/out filter for Blender, branched off the MD2 one for instance, that's one step closer to a gradual improvement of the Doomsday model format - it's effectively isolating a barrier by moving closer towards eliminating the MD2 base. If a new feature is introduced in the Doomsday engine that affects or adds onto the modelling system, the Blender plugin could be updated to utilize it.

    I understand that the actual code might not be as forgiving, but in the broad and literal sense it sounds like a good sort of step to take.
    OK, yeah, I get what you mean... I would imagine that they would use an open-source or free model format already available, kind of like they did with MD2. It would just be so much easier to maintain, attract attention for, and lend people to use their own programs to create/mod with, such that a middleman as much as md2tool or something of that nature would be unnecessary. DMD was pretty much instituted to improve on the crudely-archaic MD2 without actually going to the next level yet. However, we're beginning to start approaching that next level! :)
  • Some freeware programs useful for 3d modelling or 3d animation:


    3d animation tools:

    Character fx 1.3.4 can export in md2 format.

    Pacemaker 1.3.4d can use physic ragdoll.

    3d modelling tools:

    KHED 1.01 like milkshape 3d, the new version coming soon.

    Marbleclay 6.1 rev258 like metasequoia 3d, you must send a mail to the author to grab a serial key and break the 1 000 limit polygons it's free.

    See this page for explanation:
    http://homepage3.nifty.com/escargot/MarbleCLAY/MCLInfoE.html

    It's all
  • Maybe some model format that can be compiled from SMD files? Just thinking that Half-Life 1 & 2 are quite popular games, so there's SMD exporters for many different programs.

    Then I've also wondered if the models in MD2 format should be centered to the origo? Like does that decrease the amount of wobblyness? Usually I've just had the feet at the 0 level...
  • The "wobblyness" is not affected by the origin of vertices within the model's local coordinate space. The MD2 format has inherent quantization of vertex coordinates which automatically "snaps" vertices to a regular subdivision of the model's local coordinate space in order to effect compression of vertex information. Simply translating the origin of a model merely translates it's coordinate space.

    You could insert an additional unnecessary vertex within the model to deliberately orient the coordinate space about some arbitrary origin, however, this would actually be counter-productive because although you now have your oriented local coordinate space you also loose precision because the regular space subdivision now has to cover a larger space. Carefully applied however, you can use this technique to minimize what is colloquially known as "vertex swimming" by ensuring that all frames in an animation use a "quantization grid" oriented about the same place in the model's local coordinate space.

    We plan to look at much more modern model formats for a future release.
  • Ah, ok, so id software had the models centered for some other reason in Q1 and Q2. I think I remember seeing some strange vertices floating in mid air in some models years ago when I was looking at the models in some old jDoom model pack. I guess I'll just keep modeling them with their feet at the 0 level... though somewhere I read that models centered to the origo would give better texture bakes...
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