Sapphire Wand 2.0 + Doomsday 2 Hexen Models

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  • Looking good. May I ask why you always angle the weapons ingame slightly? Is it to make it more "real" so that the weapon doesn't come out of your chest?
  • Milten wrote:
    May I ask why you always angle the weapons ingame slightly? Is it to make it more "real" so that the weapon doesn't come out of your chest?
    I'm doing it to avoid symmetry. The left and right sides of the model shared the same texture space, so all details, dust and scratches are mirrored. That looks unnatural. Slightly angled model changes things, cause left and right parts of the model are lit differently.
    If you ask me why I use mirrored texture, then I can say it's for performance of course. I can use 2 times lower res texture for the same detail level.
  • What about to add settings for the user? For example, when user plays with your model at first time, it rendered as you mentioned above, but he can change next behavior in model options menu:

    1) mirrored/unmirrored texture
    2) lowres/hires texture
    3) angle=0 / angle=30
    4) etc

    Yes, I mean separate options for each model (but global options of course can be too).

    And yes, before changing these values user should be notified with red text, that changing to hires decreases fps/performance
  • wonderful work veirdo :) can't wait to play with it....

    .. but I concur with theleo_ua for addtional model options
  • When it comes to model options, the implementation is a bit limited at the moment. I would generally recommend against trying to offer options at this point, because the only way to do it is to prepare a set of alternative versions of the package. These variants can share the same data files, but each needs their own metadata.

    Eventually I imagine we'll have toggles and other settings for packages that can be accessed via the [...] button in the package list, but I don't see this as a very high priority feature.
  • theleo_ua wrote:
    1) mirrored/unmirrored texture
    2) lowres/hires texture
    3) angle=0 / angle=30
    1) require new model with another uv-set and new texture-set
    2) can be made on a game client's side changing start mip level of the texture (skyjake's work)
    3) require new animation set for the model. By the way the angle is only 3º.
    I can do all of these things of course if there is nothing left to do in my life. But I better start to do another model :)
  • veirdo wrote:
    3) require new animation set for the model. By the way the angle is only 3º.

    Before your answer, I thought that this works like "angleoffset" or "rolloffset" in GZDoom: http://zdoom.org/wiki/MODELDEF#Properties

    Those thoughts were because of your wand model which has a lot of rotations in different axises (and also because of Doom 2016 hud models, which has a global option "use center view as in Doom2" and also a lot of ingame rotations, making me to think that those was impossible for md2/md3, but possible for FBX). Also if compare your old MD2 wand 1.0 with new FBX wand 2.0, same thoughts appear: FBX version has much more rotations.

    So, as I understand, angle/rolloffsets in wand model are hardcoded in animations too, so it's impossible to change global angleoffset for wand without editing each FBX animation?
    veirdo wrote:
    I can do all of these things of course if there is nothing left to do in my life. But I better start to do another model :)

    If those changes are so hard, of course it's better to do another model
  • I can see that a purist might want the model to be just like the sprite but in truth it looks much more natural with the angle rather than straight out of your belly button. ;) I'm looking forward to a day when we have player models that actually hold the weapon, but I suppose that would be something far far down the road.
  • theleo_ua wrote:
    So, as I understand, angle/rolloffsets in wand model are hardcoded in animations too, so it's impossible to change global angleoffset for wand without editing each FBX animation?
    The animations are "hardcoded", but it's not very hard to me to make not angled animation set and keep it in the same FBX model package. But there is no option to choose animation set as skyjake said.

    But I'm here to share some new info and screenshots. The worlds of id's tech1 games are lack of light information, and even Doomsday engine's dyn-lights generator is not enough to fully lit the world. That's why reflections based on a game environment I did was very plain and not interesting.
    Now I mixed game environment with a professional studio light setup and make new cubemap reflections. There are screenshots from game. And I almost finished with a weapon script, as you can see on a ranged attack shot. Thanks to skyjake now you can use old styled XARP addon with a new model format packages.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25137016/modelFormat/WIP/hexen-sstaff-011.png
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25137016/modelFormat/WIP/hexen-sstaff-012.png
    I spent too much time building and testing new cubemaps, so release of the HUD Serpent Staff model delayed to tomorrow. That's not too much time compared to waiting of Duke Nukem Forever :)
  • Serpent Staff HUD model available for download.
  • The model is cool and professional, as expected. Now it seems that I'll play the whole Hexen with the cleric to enjoy the serpent staff :). Veirdo, which model do you plan to do next?
  • Hi rmladenov,
    I'll make one model for Heretic and then will return to Hexen Cleric weapons, starting from Mace of Contrition.
  • thx again for this great model...... :)

    heretic really deserves a model update :)

    Now I mixed game environment with a professional studio light setup and make new cubemap reflections.

    Consist these light setup of three rectangular light sources?
  • 0815Jack wrote:
    Consist these light setup of three rectangular light sources?
    Yeah, that's a cheat like all in computer graphics :)
    I have a video with old and new models meeting. Now it is possible. Doomsday Engine 2.0 Hexen HUD models. Part#1
  • veirdo wrote:
    Thanks to skyjake now you can use old styled XARP addon with a new model format packages.
    veirdo wrote:
    I have a video with old and new models meeting. Now it is possible. Doomsday Engine 2.0 Hexen HUD models. Part#1

    Dear skyjake and veirdo, I have some questions to both of you guys: we plan (approximately in 2-4 weeks) to stream online (with uploading records to youtube of course) full hexen original+deathkings walkthrough on skill 5 (with entering of each secret level), using latest version of veirdo's models, xarp packs etc. For now we have 2 options:

    1) Use latest build of doomsday 2.x, latest models of veirdo (for example serpent staff) and xarp of veirdo (hexen original will be played as cleric, and deathkings probably with mage because of wand 2.0)

    2) Use Doomsday 1.15.8 with my modified version of xarp (so no serpent staff and other newest models from current thread). Hexen original will be played with mage (wanna see how mage HUD models will look like in stream), deathkings with fighter


    Before this post I planned to use option 2, but streamer said that he want to play with latest serpent staff.

    Question to skyjake: is current version (or version planned to be in 4 weeks) of doomsday 2.x acceptable for playing hexen on live stream? Should we expect bugs which will block gameplay and force player to restart whole hexen from map01?

    For example, from my point of view, 1.15.8 is acceptable for this, even with "map13" issue with weapon piece and icon of the defender, and we even tried it on stream, and all issues which were reproduced on that stream were related to incorrect models in xarp (veirdo fixed them btw).

    But I'm not sure about Doomsday 2.x in such kind of "stress testing" with playing online with multiple viewers on hardest skill level, so without possibility to use cheats or "wand starts". Also this streamer plays in non-standard style, doing things which usual player will not do and come to places which usual player will not come, so I expect new bugs to be found on those streams (because when he streamed hexen 2 with xarp-like addons in jshexen port, a lot of interesting bugs were found (both in engine and addons) ).


    Question to veirdo: what do you think about FOV value for 16:9 resolutions, for example 1280x720? How fov120 or even 160 will affect serpent staff? Which fov value you prefer for such kind of streams?

    This question is related only to serpent staff (and probably to wand 2.0 later), because I can adjust other models to FOV120/160 by myself, if required

    Thank you in advance

    P.S. Sorry for that bunch of text, but I really need to know, how people are interested in such kind of streams/vods (expecially veirdo as author), and what we can do with "doomsday 2.x + xarp", because now I have time to adjust stream for doomsday 2.x, models 2.0 and xarp
  • theleo_ua wrote:
    what do you think about FOV value for 16:9 resolutions, for example 1280x720? How fov120 or even 160 will affect serpent staff? Which fov value you prefer for such kind of streams?
    New models feel pretty good with a different kind of the screen aspect ratios. The positioning is more or less steady.
    The FOV is another matter. The parallel lines are closing much faster in the perspective with a bigger FOV values. Here is example image:
    FOV_Shift.gif

    If you want to fix that for your preferred FOV values you need to tweak offset values
    offset <X, Y, Z>
    
    inside info.dei

    There no need to scale the model. Remember: the closer model to camera, the bigger it on a screen. :)
  • theleo_ua wrote:
    Question to skyjake: is current version (or version planned to be in 4 weeks) of doomsday 2.x acceptable for playing hexen on live stream? Should we expect bugs which will block gameplay and force player to restart whole hexen from map01?
    I haven't yet done extensive playtesting with the recent builds (although the time for that is getting closer as we approach the stable 2.0). My gut feeling right now is that you may encounter a crash or two, but unless you run into a savegame bug, it shouldn't ruin the whole game. The 2.0 unstable builds will still be going through some potentially crash-inducing changes, so the situation may change during the upcoming weeks. It is advisable for you to pick a specific build to stick to and try to play through a few maps/hubs beforehand to see how it goes.

    Of course, if you discover new bugs it should be very informative to have video evidence of how they occurred. :)
  • veirdo wrote:
    0815Jack wrote:
    Consist these light setup of three rectangular light sources?
    Yeah, that's a cheat like all in computer graphics :)
    I have a video with old and new models meeting. Now it is possible. Doomsday Engine 2.0 Hexen HUD models. Part#1

    This is so awesome! It made me laugh out loud a when you get the serpent staff out for the first time as it's just so much better than the older models! Also I was loving the music at the beginning, Spock's Beard!
  • skyjake wrote:
    I haven't yet done extensive playtesting with the recent builds (although the time for that is getting closer as we approach the stable 2.0). My gut feeling right now is that you may encounter a crash or two, but unless you run into a savegame bug, it shouldn't ruin the whole game. The 2.0 unstable builds will still be going through some potentially crash-inducing changes, so the situation may change during the upcoming weeks. It is advisable for you to pick a specific build to stick to and try to play through a few maps/hubs beforehand to see how it goes.

    Of course, if you discover new bugs it should be very informative to have video evidence of how they occurred. :)

    Thanks for the answer! We had a long conversation with veirdo about "what he want to see from such kind of videos", so taking into account all pros and cons we decided to use 1.15.8 (mage for original and fighter for deathkings)
    veirdo wrote:
    The FOV is another matter. The parallel lines are closing much faster in the perspective with a bigger FOV values. Here is example image:
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/251 ... _Shift.gif

    If you want to fix that for your preferred FOV values you need to tweak offset values
    offset <X, Y, Z>
    inside info.dei

    BTW, you can see how mage weapons 1.0 looks like with FOV 160 in doomsday 1.15.8 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYqgB8c ... _Jzyeq_FMv

    I think it should be similar in 2.0, but will try it when we decide to move to it from 1.15.x
  • edited 2017 Apr 1
    Hi veirdo

    1) Please check this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO0npqUndpo&list=PL5QwAqOy7WABpsDsuzSKwTk2S8QnzsLg5&index=1#t=1h39m16s (from 1:39:16 to 1:39:36). Is it model issue or doomsday bug?

    2) Please check this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvsIMYnnJTg&list=PL5QwAqOy7WABpsDsuzSKwTk2S8QnzsLg5&index=3#t=1h25m27s (from 1:25:27 to 1:25:30). Why flask rotated with Z axis during pickup, is it intended?
  • Hi Leo,
    The first one is a visual script issue. It seems that you step in portal in the middle of the working script and it's not reset after loading a new map.
    The second one is a "picked up" model hiding delay issue. The model already shouldn't be there, but replaced with a "pick up" visual fx.
  • did you have time to work on your hexen / heretic models?

    what about the ettin? wasn't he nearly finished?
  • Hi 0815Jack, my work on Doomsday almost halted since December 2016. My new work take out all my time, but after our project reach Open beta state in 10th of May I will be happy to continue to work on Doomsday models :)
    Ettin require special xdeath model which is half-done.
  • thx for the info.... :)
  • veirdo wrote: »
    The second one is a "picked up" model hiding delay issue. The model already shouldn't be there, but replaced with a "pick up" visual fx.

    It seems that you should fix the model animation definitions: https://tracker.dengine.net/issues/2232#note-2
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