2 DaniJ. In that case it's a real problem. My suggestion for now is to have a .box pack with "safe" and "art" defs. But since I'm in the active development state it's more useful to keep all models and defs in one .pk3.
I can do a .box in some milestone, say when all weapons will be completed.
Not only the chaingun have changed state defs, but the plasmagun too, and Psychikon's golden wand. I've seen some monsters state defs changed as well. Maybe for further Dengine would be nice to have a more flexible visual scripts, which is mechanics independent.
My personal opinion is that the animation you altered the behaviour for looks strange. It just looks like a jerk movement that repeats three time (I originally thought the animation was broken) and almost looks like you added it to imply some sort of off screen reload.
While there is no basis in real life for wheter a magic staff needs to 'reload'; IMO it doesn't work in this case.
Vermil, what are you talking about? The "jerk" movement I see only during attack state, which I didn't change. There is a vanilla animation, like in sapphire wand or doom rocket launcher. I changed only ready states and it looks now very smooth.
Ah. I took a guess at the states you modified,rather than opening the ded's and looking. My apologies.
In that case then, I personally, don't like the attack animation of the weapon model; it seems to repeat the recoil animation three times in sucession. Is this correct?
As for the ready animation; I'd personally rather it not be as smooth, or be sped up, rather than alter the original states. But that's just my opinion. I notice that the animation of the globe during an attack is co-incidently faster than the ready animation; but that have been deliberete on your part?
What you see is vanilla pullback/recoil animation. It have 3 hardcoded steps, and you can see it more noticeable with sprites turned on in game. The same behaviour is doom's rocket launcher and mage's sapphire wand. I wonder some day we can disable vanilla animation legacy and use a custom animations for attack, raise/lower weapon and head bobbing.
The original sprite pulls back and goes back in one smooth motion. Your model jumps up and down multiple times.
It would be cool to have full control of the model animation lengths yes; one can imagine the wings of a Heretic Gargoyle model animating completely independently of it rearing up to attack for instance. That a submodel (the Gargoyles wings) could be set to have its own animation and Dday would automatically try move a sub model in order to keep it attached to a certain point on a main model (i.e the main Gargoyle body), if you get what I mean.
But even if Deng team do pull something out the hat to achieve it, there will likely always be jumps or unnatural movement (if we assumed that Dday attempted to interpolate the movement from ready animation to attack animation) from, say, the ready animation to the attack animation. Due to the original states instantly jumping (i.e an cal for an attack can be called at the start of any of a monsters walking states).
It is certainly possible that we might one day implement such a thing, however it does mean a complete replacement of DOOM's frame based (state) animation system. Perhaps we'll look at this when the time comes to implement support for modern (i.e., not frame based) 3D model formats.
I have to say that the flame effects on the Bloodscourge look impressive. Also, a good way of covering up the jump in animation of the globe when the entering the attack states.
have to agree, the effects look absolutely awesome!
another brilliant piece of work veirdo! everything you made so far is absolutely amazing and very professional looking
tell us honestly, are you secretly an ex-3D-artist from ID or raven?
cuz your skill in modelling is so amazing you almost must be
I was 15 or 16 years old when Hexen came out, so I can't be ex-artist from id/raven ) And I'm not a modeler. I work in gamedev industry as vfx artist. Particle effects and dynamic simulations is my everyday duty
I wonder if the spikes around the edges of the Blood Scourge projectile sprites were actually supposed to represent warping of, or bits of the central sphere part falling or being pulled off, as it rotates, rather than literally being, well, spikes.
Indeed, there are a few unattached pixels on the ends of the spikes, in the sprite; maybe one could have a few particles fly off the ends of the spikes of your model, sparkler like, to attempt to mimic that part of the sprite?
That said, looks good again; maybe the colours are a bit too bright though and the fire trail a bit too large though. But those are trivial things to potentially fix if wished.
I think you're doing some excellent work veirdo, your background in the industry certainly shines through. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work and can't wait to have a run-through of Hexen in high-res glory!
I think for Hexen's art more suitable effect is something like that
but even if i completely remove particle trail, you never see it because of very fast rotating speed of the projectile. It will be just waste of memory.
The particle trails from tips of the "fire blades" is more interesting idea, but i don't know how to attach particle emitters to the said tips. I think i can do it with "Submodel" feature of particle generator if the center of that submodel will be calculated every frame. In that case i can add a null objects like very small geomery triangles to the tips and use it's centers to emit particles.
UPD. 25.06.2013
Mage's weapons pack completed.
Current version 1.0
Now I think I'll spend about 2 months to polish current pack. There are lot of things to do.
Truly an amazing piece of work. Maybe someone will break down and redesign Quietus, Wraithverge and possibly firestorm (the current redesigned one could use some help) that would cover every weapon in the game at that point.
The particle trails from tips of the "fire blades" is more interesting idea, but i don't know how to attach particle emitters to the said tips. I think i can do it with "Submodel" feature of particle generator if the center of that submodel will be calculated every frame.
I don't think that would work, unless the object itself were to be rotating. Either that, or you could do like how I think (if I remember correctly) DaniJ did so long ago with the BFG blast: make a force axis and have particles spin around it like that!
The reason is because I think the particle systems are based off of the model's central point, with whatever other coordinates you put in. Unless the submodel were to actually move, then the origin and orientation would remain the same. See what I mean?
The particle trails from tips of the "fire blades" is more interesting idea, but i don't know how to attach particle emitters to the said tips. I think i can do it with "Submodel" feature of particle generator if the center of that submodel will be calculated every frame.
I don't think that would work, unless the object itself were to be rotating.
No, it does indeed work like that. I made use of this mechanic with the Imp in the DOOM resource pack so that flame particles followed the movement of the Imp's hand precisely.
2 Psychikon
I did some tests with "Submodel" feature and it works. As I said earlier, I made a null object as a small triangle geometry which is completely transparent. Then I attached these objects to the tips of the projectiles and use it as particle generators. And I animated objects itself, yes
You can see result here
With some art touches it will look ok, but in that case the result didn't worth that effort. There are too much generators. Each projectile have 4 states, and each state have 2 generators, and all of that multiplied by 3.
2 0815Jack
The "Mage's weapons pack" thread name will not work as soon as I switch to Fighter's models
2 Psychikon
With some art touches it will look ok, but in that case the result didn't worth that effort. There are too much generators. Each projectile have 4 states, and each state have 2 generators, and all of that multiplied by 3.
I really like the effect....maybe there will be solution with the upcoming new renderer
Sorry, Gordon, but I saw your Caco projectile and explosion. There are too much technical and art issues, so I'm not sure what you're the one who can do something special.
Comments
The issue is that Veirdo has changed the weapons behaviour (the states), so he can in turn implement the visual effect he wanted.
I can do a .box in some milestone, say when all weapons will be completed.
Not only the chaingun have changed state defs, but the plasmagun too, and Psychikon's golden wand. I've seen some monsters state defs changed as well. Maybe for further Dengine would be nice to have a more flexible visual scripts, which is mechanics independent.
My personal opinion is that the animation you altered the behaviour for looks strange. It just looks like a jerk movement that repeats three time (I originally thought the animation was broken) and almost looks like you added it to imply some sort of off screen reload.
While there is no basis in real life for wheter a magic staff needs to 'reload'; IMO it doesn't work in this case.
In that case then, I personally, don't like the attack animation of the weapon model; it seems to repeat the recoil animation three times in sucession. Is this correct?
As for the ready animation; I'd personally rather it not be as smooth, or be sped up, rather than alter the original states. But that's just my opinion. I notice that the animation of the globe during an attack is co-incidently faster than the ready animation; but that have been deliberete on your part?
The actual model of course, looks great.
It would be cool to have full control of the model animation lengths yes; one can imagine the wings of a Heretic Gargoyle model animating completely independently of it rearing up to attack for instance. That a submodel (the Gargoyles wings) could be set to have its own animation and Dday would automatically try move a sub model in order to keep it attached to a certain point on a main model (i.e the main Gargoyle body), if you get what I mean.
But even if Deng team do pull something out the hat to achieve it, there will likely always be jumps or unnatural movement (if we assumed that Dday attempted to interpolate the movement from ready animation to attack animation) from, say, the ready animation to the attack animation. Due to the original states instantly jumping (i.e an cal for an attack can be called at the start of any of a monsters walking states).
another brilliant piece of work veirdo! everything you made so far is absolutely amazing and very professional looking
tell us honestly, are you secretly an ex-3D-artist from ID or raven?
cuz your skill in modelling is so amazing you almost must be
The model pack updated to 0.940
Added Bloodscourge projectiles.
Indeed, there are a few unattached pixels on the ends of the spikes, in the sprite; maybe one could have a few particles fly off the ends of the spikes of your model, sparkler like, to attempt to mimic that part of the sprite?
That said, looks good again; maybe the colours are a bit too bright though and the fire trail a bit too large though. But those are trivial things to potentially fix if wished.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=solar ... 20&bih=934
but even if i completely remove particle trail, you never see it because of very fast rotating speed of the projectile. It will be just waste of memory.
The particle trails from tips of the "fire blades" is more interesting idea, but i don't know how to attach particle emitters to the said tips. I think i can do it with "Submodel" feature of particle generator if the center of that submodel will be calculated every frame. In that case i can add a null objects like very small geomery triangles to the tips and use it's centers to emit particles.
UPD. 25.06.2013
Mage's weapons pack completed.
Current version 1.0
Now I think I'll spend about 2 months to polish current pack. There are lot of things to do.
The reason is because I think the particle systems are based off of the model's central point, with whatever other coordinates you put in. Unless the submodel were to actually move, then the origin and orientation would remain the same. See what I mean?
maybe the title of the thread should be more like "Mage's weapons pack"...
I did some tests with "Submodel" feature and it works. As I said earlier, I made a null object as a small triangle geometry which is completely transparent. Then I attached these objects to the tips of the projectiles and use it as particle generators. And I animated objects itself, yes
You can see result here
With some art touches it will look ok, but in that case the result didn't worth that effort. There are too much generators. Each projectile have 4 states, and each state have 2 generators, and all of that multiplied by 3.
2 0815Jack
The "Mage's weapons pack" thread name will not work as soon as I switch to Fighter's models
IT'S FIXED!!! I thought that I was having a problem with that in another model! Very nice job, veirdo!
Either that, or I had been doing what I was doing wrong, or maybe it was merely the problem with the particles and bobbing that I remember...