PK3 vs. Addon vs. Box vs. good grief

Tolwyn

I would like to create a PK3 file instead of an addon.box file to distribute.

In earlier versions... resources in the folder structure were:

./data/jheretic/flats
./data/jheretic/textures
./data/jheretic/sounds

is it still:

flats
textures
sounds

or
flat
texture
sound

or

?

What is the folder structure that will be read at runtime?
Where do I put my PK3 file?
There is no runtime folder now with snowberry.
If I weren't using it, how should I structure the PK3 file?

For example, lets say I wanted to replace the wpnup sound in heretic.

If using a PK3 file, what would the folder structure be?
If using just a file, what would the folder structure be and where does this structure start?

Thanks.

Gordon

well in the pk3 file it would be data/name of game/flats, textures, or sounds it has not changed as far as i am concerned as that's the method that DHTP uses.

thechad

there is still a runtime folder it's located in your documents folder and is called doomsday frontend
mine is located here
C:\Users\thechadisgr8\Documents\Doomsday Frontend"

DaniJ

I'll refer you to the wiki
http://dengine.net/dew/index.php?title=PK3
http://dengine.net/dew/index.php?title= ... ing_in_PK3

Tolwyn

There needs to be a manual for the wiki.

I don't put files in the docs and settings stuff. Too confusing. A game should never be spread outside of one parent folder, IMHO.

This is what I needed:

/data/<game>/ then:
detailtextures/
flares/
flats/
lightmaps/
models/
music/
patches/
sfx/
textures/

For the life of me, I could NOT find all that good readme stuff. Is there an offline version of the manual?
So, sfx is the place for sounds. (uhm, right?)

Tolwyn

PS. I don't have a Doomsday Front end folder anywhere in my c:\documents and settings\user\my documents folder anyways...

So, just so I'm clear, in the regular old doomsday folder where I installed stuff, where would this folder be placed? Where would the auto folder go?

DaniJ

Tolwyn wrote:

There needs to be a manual for the wiki.

Why, whats so confusing about the wiki? There is a search facility in case you really get stuck.

I don't put files in the docs and settings stuff. Too confusing. A game should never be spread outside of one parent folder, IMHO.

Maybe so but thats the way it works under most modern operating systems (I note you are using Windows XP).

For the life of me, I could NOT find all that good readme stuff. Is there an offline version of the manual?

Manual? Do you perhaps mean the old readme.txt? If so, it will be grossly outdated and little use. All this type of info is now to be found at the wiki.

So, sfx is the place for sounds. (uhm, right?)

Yes.

I don't have a Doomsday Front end folder anywhere in my c:\documents and settings\user\my documents folder anyways...

That is because you are running Windows XP. On this platform we purposely keep to the model where everything is contained in the Doomsday folder because thats the way users on this platform want it to work.

So, just so I'm clear, in the regular old doomsday folder where I installed stuff, where would this folder be placed? Where would the auto folder go?

Why do you want to use the \auto folders? If you are using Snowberry then you are better off simply putting your addon in with the rest and manage them from the Snowberry UI. However if you must, you can still create the old \data\<game>\auto and \defs\<game>\auto folders and use them as you would with older versions of Doomsday (e.g., c:\Program Files\Doomsday\data\jdoom\auto).

Tolwyn

You're misunderstanding me!

I DO want to use the auto folder! I don't see one! (My installation didn't create one) I'll create the one you mentioned.

Pffft. I only have 2 games out of 32 that use the docs and settings. The Sims 2 and MS Flight Simulator 2004. I'm an old grumpy man, dammit.

I suck at the Wiki, man. I would not have KNOWN to search for PK3. I wanted folder structure. So, you kinda have to already have foreknowledge of what you NEED to search for to find what you NEED to read. Seems like a natural catch 22. You are pre-biased on the usefulness of the Wiki because you know how it works. You know WHAT to search for. I didn't. Old Dumb Users != Software Developers

Like you'd need to know to search for gasoline if you wanted information on "make car go vroom vroom".

I'm really not complaining at all, but more explaining my perspective. But, I wonder if it's a bug that the ./auto/ folder did not get created on a clean install... ?

Tolwyn

I will figure out the Wiki, by the way. Just give me some time.

DaniJ

Tolwyn wrote:

I DO want to use the auto folder! I don't see one! (My installation didn't create one) I'll create the one you mentioned.

The auto folders are no longer created by default because they aren't that useful post Snowberry.

I suck at the Wiki, man. I would not have KNOWN to search for PK3. I wanted folder structure.

The problem was that I could not decide exactly what it was you were asking for. You asked about both the PK3 structure and the Doomsday directory structure.

The article which explains the directory structure can be found here.

So, you kinda have to already have foreknowledge of what you NEED to search for to find what you NEED to read. Seems like a natural catch 22. You are pre-biased on the usefulness of the Wiki because you know how it works. You know WHAT to search for. I didn't. Old Dumb Users != Software Developers

That is a valid point but clearly I misunderstood and directed you to the wrong article.

skyjake

The general principle with real files vs. PK3s is that the folder structure they use is the same, but PK3s additionally employ a number of convenience shortcuts to simplify the folder structure inside a PK3. The PK3 file itself can be located anywhere on the file system -- it is treated the same way regardless of where it was loaded from.

Regarding the wiki: It is a sad fact that while some parts of the wiki are well up-to-date, many parts are not. It seems that very few people are interested in working on documentation. Personally, if I had more time to work on the project some of that time could be spent on the wiki, but in the current situation I'd rather spend the time I have working on the code itself. Further complicating the issue is that many things now would require separate documentation for the stable version 1.8.6 and the next-gen version 2.0.

I want to remind everyone that the wiki is open for improvement by all those who are interested.

Maybe to improve the situation with the documentation we should establish a bounty system where people that contribute good-quality documentation to the wiki will be given some money as reward, via PayPal.

Vermil

As I have commented to Dani before. I think the wiki is difficult to navigate; many of the article titles are not generic enough. For instance "How to create a Barrel Monster" should be named "How to create a new monster".

Dday has also never really attracted people who would be interested in learning how it works. All the technically minded Doomers and Doom modders; all people with more interest than just playing the game, use other ports.

I think such people would be more than willing to edit the wiki without being offered incentive. Look at the ZDoom wiki for instance. The issue is how to make Dday it'self appeal to them.

Tolwyn

From my work with Dr. Sleep, I know I have some stuff in the Wiki. Maybe I'll see what I can do, but I don't want any money for it.

DaniJ

Vermil wrote:

...many of the article titles are not generic enough. For instance "How to create a Barrel Monster" should be named "How to create a new monster".

It is named appropriately. That article is a step-by-step How To guide to creating a monster out of the DOOM barrel. Its not an all encompassing guide on how to create new monsters. Changing the article title as you suggest would be misleading.

Tolwyn wrote:

From my work with Dr. Sleep, I know I have some stuff in the Wiki. Maybe I'll see what I can do, but I don't want any money for it.

That really would be a great help =D>

Psychikon

DaniJ wrote:

Vermil wrote:

...many of the article titles are not generic enough. For instance "How to create a Barrel Monster" should be named "How to create a new monster".

It is named appropriately. That article is a step-by-step How To guide to creating a monster out of the DOOM barrel. Its not an all encompassing guide on how to create new monsters. Changing the article title as you suggest would be misleading.

Maybe something that would attract both people looking where to get started on monsters and a good example might be something like "Creating New Monsters: the Barrel Monster" and other such examples could be named in a similar way? It's just a suggestion, don't kill me!