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Hexen Config for GZDoombuilder2?

edited 2016 Jul 21 in Tools and Techniques
Hiya!

I have "mostly" made a Heretic config file for GZDoombuilder2, as Heretic and DOOM are almost the same engine as far as I can tell. However, Hexen has different 'structures' from what I can tell. I am having a helluva time figuring out how and what I need to change in the jDOOM.cfg file for GZDoombuilder2.

Does anyone have a jHexen.cfg already done up for use in GZDoombuilder2? If not, does anyone have any links or pointers for where I can go to learn what needs to be done to make my own?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Comments

  • Hiya!

    I almost answered my own question... Just using the Hexen in Hexen format is what I have been using, but I can't add/modify DED from within GZDB2. Well, I can...once. Then when I open the wad again it crashes and freezes DB if I try and open the DED up to edit it. I guess the only other thing that would be nice to be able to have is visual lighting, as if I was making a map for GZDoom. I have a materials.ded with my glowing flats I want, and plan to add lights to some wall textures. I've made my own 'dynamic lights' and added them in as well. But, the whole "DED editing crashes GZDB2" is kind of putting a crimp in my hair.

    Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Is there something blindingly obvious I'm missing with regard to developing full-fledged maps for Doomsday Hexen?

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming
  • whats the ded for?
  • I thought GZDB2 was for GZDoom, ZDoom, or Zandronum. Didn't know it could be used to make maps for DD. I always thought it strange people coming here and asking about GZD and such.
  • Hiya!

    @Gordon -- The DED's are for setting up my own custom glowing flats, adding 'dynamic' lights to wall textures, creating 'light things' so I can add more interesting lighting to the level, and probably more....I'm still learning DED.

    @PostFatal -- GZDB2 was created specifically to show all the cool stuff you can have in GZDoom in your editor; specific linedef assignments (like slopes and whatnot), as well as placement of all manner of special Things (Hate targets, Water, Portals, Bridges, Dynamic Lights, etc). It's all available directly in the editor, ready for placement.

    With Doomsday, however, if I want a dynamic light (say, an orange 'glow' for a large room with lots of candles/torches and a river of lava going through the middle), I have to create a DED file for it, give it an ID, then add a Thing in GZDB2 and change it's ID to the ID number of the light in DED. This shows up as a "?" icon in the map...and I don't see any effect in the "visual mode" in GZDB2; I have to actually save and play the level to see if it's too bright, to dark, to red, etc. I know there is a way of changing this 'on the fly' from within Doomsday (I think?), but it still involves reloading the DED (again, I think?). But with GZDB2 and GZDoom, I have an actual Dynamic Light 'thing icon' (looks like a lightbulb in-editor), and I can pop into Visual Mode and then change it's properties and see the results instantly (intensity, color, flicker rate, inner/outer radius, etc). It makes it SOOOOO much easier to create evocative levels.

    That said...Doomsday simply blows GZDoom out of the water as far as graphic fidelity goes. I've made simple 'light based' levels in GZDoom, then recreated it in Doomsday...and Doomsday, by FAR, looks light-years better. Even if I'm using Beautiful DOOM with GZDOOM (which definitely helps), but there is no "Beautiful Hexen" or "Beautiful Heretic". :(

    Anyway...it sure would be nice to have a DEDoombilder2, wouldn't it? :D But, until that ship arrives, I'll settle for at least being able to modify my DED's in GZDB2 and not have it freeze after one or two saves.

    PS: After re-reading my post I've come to the conclusion that there needs to be a LOT more done on the side of "Mapper Friendliness" with regards to Doomsday. On Doomworld I know I've heard lots of folk over the years say stuff like "Doomsday is GORGEOUS! Too bad it's a PITA to map for..." or "Doomsday is an awesome engine, with ridiculous modability via DED and XG...too bad there isn't an editor that can make use of it all...making it too painful to map for", etc. I think it's high time the Doomsday powers that be (the coder team/types/folks) take some time to develop editing tools/plugins/configs/special-builds of either Doombuilder2, DeepSea or SLADE3. Work with the creators of those editors and try and get something going. I'd prefer Doombuilder2, but SLADE3's mapping part is coming along nicely...and still under construction. A perfect time for Doomsday to get in on the ground floor with it. :)

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming
  • well you need to be using doom builder 2 for one and second some of thos stuff can be out side of the wad and bundled with the wad in a pk3/zip file. anything to do with the map it's self and sectors can be in the map it's self everything else can be out side of the map.
  • Hiya!

    I realize I can bundle all that deds, new textures, sounds, music, maps, etc into a pk3 (haven't done it yet, but I know that's what generally happens for Doomsday at any rate). However, I can't "see" any of the nice, gorgeous, full-colour goodness that Doomsday has to offer. Even if it was just an approximation would be better than the plain-look now.

    Here is a map I just plopped down to illustrate:

    Here is the level in GZDoombuilder2 with jDOOM.cfg...

    2ajvn02.jpg

    And here is the level in GZDoombuilder2 with GZDOOM (in UDMF) config...
    316rwwn.jpg

    I'd like to be able to see all this with Doomsday, and especially Hexen (as title of the thread). I know that BeautifulDoom has a whole host of files to enable all the fancy lighting on the Things for DOOM (modeldefs or something?), but the GLDEFS (materials.ded equivalent I guess?) show up in-editor for any GZDoom based engine (GZHexen and GZHeretic, as well as GZStrife, I believe). I know I would have to do all the DED/DEFS writing to get the Hexen equivalent for the Things, but I've got time to burn right now so learning and writing isn't out of the question. But if someone's already written a jHexen.cfg that at least lets me write/save DED's in-editor, it's be a nice start.

    Looking into the jDOOM.cfg you can see that at one point it was able to cover jHexen and jHeretic as well...but I guess with all the updates something got borked, and now loading jDOOM.cfg and choosing Hexen.wad as a base gives lots of errors, and all the Things/Linedef ID's are messed up with DOOM. I've tried to go in an manually adjust all the Hexen stuff using the DOOM2 "Includes", but I obviously don't know enough. :( I'm much more of an Artist than a Programmer (I can read some code and can write basic pseudo-code, but that's about it).

    Anyway...yeah. Bottom line is that if we want to have mappers mapping for Doomsday, then the mappers need to tools do do this EASILY. A lot of mappers are like me, more "arts'ey" than "code'ey".

    At any rate...thanks for hearing me out! :)

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming
  • why are you useing something that is not for dday like gzdoombuilder and now Doom Builder 2? doom builder 2 wile not having the fancy affects can do everything you want and more. where as with gzdoombuilder i get the impression that it's only for zdoom and gzdoom based ports.
  • Flerp! Gorsh! Ding-Dangit!

    Just finished writing a half hour post (yeah, too long)...then BLAMMO! Lightning took out a transformer somewhere nearby the EXACT moment (litterally...I clicked "Submit" the very microsecond the power died).

    [Inego]Let me 'splain... No. That'd take to long...let me sum up...[/Inego]

    GZDB2 is maintained, DB2 really isn't (last update: Feb 25th, 1013 for DB2; GZDB2 was yesterday...or just an hour ago when I opened it and it said "Here's an Update! Want to do it?"). GZDB2 is really "DB2.5". It added some plugins into the core program, refined some stuff, and added the ability to see colour/radius of dymanic lights for GZDOOM via a "Light Things". It also added the ability to see sloped floor/ceiling, models, etc. It has .cfg files for much more than GZDOOM; Zandronum, BOOM, even jDOOM. The jDOOM one works fine for making Doomsday levels...but it, obviously, doesn't have "dynamic lights" as placeable things, visible 3D models (if you wanted them), etc. I have had virtually no luck in modifying it for use of "jHexen" ("jHeretic" was better...more similar base engine I guess), but I can't read/write DED's into Hexen or Heretic levels without it crashing the next time I open it to Edit in-editor.

    SLADE3 is another option I am/was hopeful for...but they are having a hard time figuring out just how Doomsday actually *works*. Here is a link to my suggestion to get in on the 'ground floor' with DE for SLADE3's Map Editor, and their reply: https://github.com/sirjuddington/SLADE/issues/552 Same problem I/we all have...not enough info or not clear enough info on all the "guts" of mapping/moding for DE. :(

    I'm sending now...before another power failure/bump!
  • ah but you forget that gzdoom builder is built for zdoom based ports and thus any other port that is not based on zdoom will have problems no ifs ands or buts as it will give you zdoom stuff that was added so you will encounter problems with dday and even with vanilla doom. yes it's built of doom builder 2 but it not the same nore has the compatibility doom builder 2 has for sourceports thus things might not work well or even at all. people tend to forget about things like this and think oh this is better so it must work not looking into what it was designed for.

    Edit: i forgot to say that the map scripting is under re-wright so it might not even work on that lvl.
  • Dday's modding features, are much more modular than other ports. That may make it much more difficult to write a ded writer that can catch every variation possible. I've always written my ded's in notepad or similar.

    Dday's modding features have also been considered legacy (to sum up) and are all due to be replaced, since 1.8.6 (the last time Dday gained new modding features was probably sometime around the early 1.9 betas). Some of Dday's modding features have since been disabled/broken and probably won't be fixed/restored until major work on the replacement begins (i.e Dday script is extended to map modding etc).

    This has contributed to interest in modding Dday declining and also a lack of documentation on the current Dday site; the current Dday website and the wiki didn't exist until after 1.8.6.

    However, the old Dday website does contain it's own documentation on modding Dday: http://web.archive.org/web/200606142032 ... php?type=5
  • Hiya!
    Gordon wrote:
    ah but you forget that gzdoom builder is built for zdoom based ports and thus any other port that is not based on zdoom will have problems no ifs ands or buts as it will give you zdoom stuff that was added so you will encounter problems with dday and even with vanilla doom. yes it's built of doom builder 2 but it not the same nore has the compatibility doom builder 2 has for sourceports thus things might not work well or even at all. people tend to forget about things like this and think oh this is better so it must work not looking into what it was designed for.

    Edit: i forgot to say that the map scripting is under re-wright so it might not even work on that lvl.

    I'm pretty sure that's not quite true. Yes, it was built "for GZDoom", but it isn't GZDOOM-Specific. As far as I know, everything is handled via Config and Includes (also configs). Everything showing up in GZDOOM is from those configuration files. They went ahead and made all-new configs specifically for "vanilla" versions of DOOM, DOOM2, Hexen, Heretic, etc. So anything that would 'break' a vanilla map won't show up and you can't "accidentally include" it (i.e, accidentally put a Dynamic Light Thing in a vanilla Heretic map...you won't even see "Dynamic Light" things nor will you see the controls for them (hokey "K"; in GZDOOM-Heretic it will bring up a colour wheel and Intensity...if you hit "K" when using the "Heretic in Heretic Format" config, nothing happens).

    Anyway, that was why I was asking if anyone has made a "jHexen" or "jHeretic" specific config that pre-defines some commonly used stuff (mainly, the use of dynamic lights). Risen3D does this, and in it's Config it has a "Dynamic Lights" Thing category with "Dynamic Light 01" through "Dynamic Light 64"; each with a pre-done TID ("24001" for Dynamic Light 01, "24002" for Dynamic Light 02, etc.). Now, the mapper still has to write the DED for each of those lights, but it would be easy for a mapper to have his own 'colour method' and 'dynamic light scheme' that he/she always uses. Then, just open the DED in the Script Editor, and modify as needed.

    What would be really nice...and another thing I was asking about...is if it would be possible to have an "approximation" of coloured light and light brightness (like my screen shots for BeautifulDOOM for GZDOOM; all that coloured light stuff is defined via the Config files...it's not 'built into the editor', per se, it's just that GZDOOMBUILDER2 can read that and understand how to display it).

    Again, this post is getting a bit long in the tooth...as I said, a bad habbit I have. Sorry! :)

    Bottom Line: You can make Vanilla DOOM/Hexen/Heretic/Strife maps in GZDOOMBUILDER2 just fine...and I get the added benefits of all the non-GZ-specific improvements like stability, frequent updates, 'built in' plugins (stairbuilder, notes, etc).

    I still think that Skyjake and the other devs should have a correspondence with the SLADE3 guys about more easily integrating "DE specific" (or at least DE friendly) stuff into SLADE3's Map Editor, as it's still in the early development phase...but coming along quite nicely, and quickly! :)

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming
  • Hiya!

    oooo...forum-faux-pax here (replying to my own reply), but I had a quick thought.

    I thought I remember hearing/reading that you can 'reload' DED files "on-the-fly" from within DE to check stuff like coloured lights and whatnot that you (the mapper) wrote DED's for. Is this a 1.8.x thing...or is it a 2.x only? Or was that some late night dream I had?

    Would it be (or is it going to be?) possible to, say, make my 'vanilla Hexen' map in whatever editor (DB2, GZDB2, DeepSea, WadAuthor, SLADE3, whatever), load it up into DE along with my deds, and keep DE running. I make a modification to the map, a DED, or maybe add a new DED...then go into, I don't know, the console from within the still running DE (via ~ key), then simply type in "Reload" and have DE reload all the files it loaded in the first place, as well as any added?

    So I could make a map. Make my own DED called "MyEyeCandy.ded". Write all my fancy 'eye candy effects' (lights, colours, particles, whatever) into that DED. Open run "MyMap.wad + MyEyeCandy.ded" via Snowberry (or however it's done in 2.x). I wander around, and decide I need more cow bell...er...red to my 'firelights'. Alt+TAB to whatever I'm writing my DED in (lets say Notepad), change it, save, Alt+TAB back into the still running DE, hit ~, then type "Reload"........and have DE 'reload' all my changest?

    Is that the likely map-making process that 2.x is going for?

    As I said...just a thought...

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming
  • well if everything skyjake envisions comes forth then map making with in dday it's self and having all the features of map makers like hammer to a degree and possibly multyplayer map making witch means a server making a map together. at least i think thats still in the works but thats a long ways off.
  • Hiya!

    That sounds pretty sweet! :D Doesn't help the mapping community now, but hey, patience is a virtue and all that right? ;)

    Until then I'm doing it the hard way; mapping in "vanillia Hexen in Hexen Format", then writing my DED's in SLADE3, the adding map + ded's in Snowberry. Slow'ish, but as I said...patience and all that. ;)
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