Most all of the games that Doomsday supports are already being played on the android. I'm not sure what doomsday on the android can add though but that's not my problem. I do understand wanting the focus of the project to be with desktops though. I too am waiting for the absolute best Doomsday experience on my computer.
Most all of the games that Doomsday supports are already being played on the android. I'm not sure what doomsday on the android can add though but that's not my problem.
This essentially is the same as the question "Why use Doomsday over a more "basic" port of DOOM". In which case the same arguments apply to mobile as they do to the desktop currently - Doomsday offers an enhanced audio/visual experience and all the other reasons why you guys are playing with Doomsday vs vanilla DOOM, in say, DOSBox.
Most all of the games that Doomsday supports are already being played on the android. I'm not sure what doomsday on the android can add though but that's not my problem.
This essentially is the same as the question "Why use Doomsday over a more "basic" port of DOOM". In which case the same arguments apply to mobile as they do to the desktop currently - Doomsday offers an enhanced audio/visual experience and all the other reasons why you guys are playing with Doomsday vs vanilla DOOM, in say, DOSBox.
I don't see that as essentially the same question at all. A desktop or good laptop is well able to take advantage of the enhancements of Doomsday whereas I'm not so sure that a phone is quite so able. Granted, phones are getting more powerful all the time. Samsungs 1080p oled screen is used in present edition of the Oculus Rift so it isn't resolution that could be the problem but processing power of a phone.
Modern mobile phones are a lot more capable than you'd immediately think. Manufacturers have been in an arms race to promote bigger and more impressive numbers for several years now. Take for instance Apple's A7 processor - its much more like a budget desktop CPU than a mobile one.
However its the GPU performance that is the biggest concern. Hence the conservative OpenGL ES 2.0 requirement.
Remember the ice texture I said I was using? would love to see reflections of a few monsters bounced around in that ice cavern in Hexen complete with the warping as it plays across the wall. I know many do not want to deviate from the original look of the games but I would like to see them be more if possible as long as such things are kept as options. I know that Doomsday can probably even now do much more than what most of the community is doing with it. I wish this old dog (me) could learn to do these new tricks.
Modern mobile phones are a lot more capable than you'd immediately think. Manufacturers have been in an arms race to promote bigger and more impressive numbers for several years now. Take for instance Apple's A7 processor - its much more like a budget desktop CPU than a mobile one.
However its the GPU performance that is the biggest concern. Hence the conservative OpenGL ES 2.0 requirement.
Does it give you the option to use an adaptor to plug in a PS2 controller or allow you to plug in many peripherals like a desktop or laptop? Also no keyboard option so buttons are limited. How can you play a FPS with a touchscreen or most games? Also I wouldn't want to hold a phone to my face. There is also the issues with battery power or the hands getting in the way of the screen. Does it have the power of my 8-core 4.0GHz Vishera processor with 16GB system RAM and Dual BIOS? How about the storage and speed of an SSD Samsung drive? Can it have the power of a Radeon Vapor X 4GB video card? I'm sure it doesn't. I'm sure heat is an issue too. Also it couldn't possibly generate the power of my 800watt power supply, so I don't see how it could run my powerful hardware, even if it uses it more efficiently.
Physics will limit how powerful its hardware can function and size will too, especially with current tech. Get photonic or quantum computing, then that will change everything.
Screen size surely matters to me. I couldn't enjoy tiny screens. that is why I used the GameBoy player for GBA games back in the day through the GameCube to play on my TV. I wasn't a fan of staring at a small screen. Good way to strain your eyes too. Emulators make it better though.
Fact is, the desktop and even laptop is still superior in most ways. As for mobile, that can be a pro and a con. A con if you consider that you could drop it or it being easier to steal. Funny when I talk in facebook, and those who use mobile phones take much longer response, but I can send messages quick with my LED backlit keyboard. Also no worry about connection loss. With my wired 10Mbps ADSL, stability and speed is great. Desktops won't die.
It is good though that you won't ditch desktop. That would ruin everything
Does it give you the option to use an adaptor to plug in a PS2 controller or allow you to plug in many peripherals like a desktop or laptop?
Yes and yes. I use a bluetooth gamepad and have the freedom of plugging in a keyboard and mouse via USB if I really need them.
How can you play a FPS with a touchscreen or most games?
I don't, I use the gamepad. And with the integrated phone holder I don't need to hold the phone separately because holding the pad means the phone is held also.
There is also the issues with battery power...
Not a problem for me. I can get four good hours of play before needing to charge, or, plug in the power lead. When I'm not gaming the battery lasts around 18 hours or more depending on what I'm doing.
...hands getting in the way of the screen
Not a problem because I use the gamepad. The only time I touch the screen is when it makes sense to do so, e.g., quickly navigating an inventory screen.
Does it have the power of my 8-core 4.0GHz Vishera processor with 16GB system RAM and Dual BIOS? How about the storage and speed of an SSD Samsung drive?
Of course not, its a phone. Lets not be stupid...
I'm sure heat is an issue too
Nope, not in the slightest. Even after hours of play its barely even warm.
Also it couldn't possibly generate the power of my 800watt power supply, so I don't see how it could run my powerful hardware, even if it uses it more efficiently.
Mobile tech is designed with heat and power efficiency in mind. Desktop tech is certainly not. Measuring performance according to how much power is consumed is not logical other than as a matter of secondary considerations like battery life.
The point to be taken from this discussion is that mobile gaming is not only a viable but also, very enjoyable alternative that makes sense in situations where a full desktop is a hindrance for one reason or another. I am in no way suggesting that people should ditch their high-end desktops and play on mobiles.
Cool though that e-paper may replace your mobile so you might someday get all the benefits of a desktop and large screen and you could roll it up and take it with you where ever. I think ultimately, OLED based e-paper will be replacing most displays, including projectors and bulky scoreboards... Also make tablets and todays smart phones obsolete.
Maybe one day, yes. Until that time comes however, we'll have to make do with playing games on and designing for devices widely available in the real world :P
The automated build system is exactly that - automated. This means that irrespective of whether or not a commit is made to the repository, a new build will be produced regardless. Also, there may be changes to the build environment, such as upgrading a compiler, that don't necessarily involve changes at source code level (thus no commit message).
Also note that the automated build system is configured to produce builds from the master branch of the repository only. Work may well be progressing in other branches that won't be included in the automated builds until such time as that work is 'merged' to the master.
why is Dday's new renderer seemingly aimed at GL2.0 and not 3.0 or 4.0?
To clarify this a bit further (and we need to update the wiki etc.): the goal is currently OpenGL ES 2.0 as a minimum/low-end/mobile graphics API. However, on the desktop/high-end, the equivalent API is OpenGL 3.3 (Core profile). It is inaccurate/obsolete to say we're targeting OpenGL 2.1, as we are actively moving away from all the old "compatibility" (fixed-function pipeline, etc.) profile features.
(mobile vs. desktop gaming)
There are a couple of important points that haven't been mentioned. Since OpenGL ES is a subset of desktop OpenGL, we can target both mobile and desktop platforms at the same time; we just have additional/improved rendering methods and resources for the desktop. Importantly, optimizing Doomsday for a low-end platform like a smartphone will also give a boost on high-end desktop rendering — these aren't mutually exclusive.
(It's also good to keep in mind that the Oculus Rift / VR rendering is very in the high end. As we rewrite Doomsday's renderer on top of OpenGL 3.3 / ES 2 API, it'll also get rid of much of the overhead of the old OpenGL 1.x rendering, giving better stereo 3D rendering performance.)
My work branches are completed for 1.15, but I'm on a break. I'll get back to work on Doomsday in October. I've now halted the automatic builder until DaniJ's work branch is done and merged.
Lately Real Life has been significantly busier that usual for me, leaving less time to spend on Doomsday.
However, my work branch is nearing completion now (including what would have been the post-merge clean up). There are some 220+ commits that I'm currently readying for merging to the master, featuring user-customizable Episodes, support for MAPINFO in all games and a few other related features. I expect this will be merge-able very soon.
Yes. Using DED definitions it will be possible in 1.15 to add new Episodes (or customize the existing ones) for any of the games supported by Doomsday. New episodes can use the existing maps in a new order, or include new user-made maps in additional episodes that are selectable from the game menu, much like Ultimate DOOM or Heretic.
Comments
Most all of the games that Doomsday supports are already being played on the android. I'm not sure what doomsday on the android can add though but that's not my problem. I do understand wanting the focus of the project to be with desktops though. I too am waiting for the absolute best Doomsday experience on my computer.
[edit] Oh my! check out the reflective water and ice in this "GLES on Android" Hexen! I want to see stuff like that in Doomsday.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/02/18 ... ame-files/
This "GLES on Android" Heretic shows the water even better. http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/06/13 ... ut-ms-dos/
be sure to set the youtube vid to HD if you can handle it.
However its the GPU performance that is the biggest concern. Hence the conservative OpenGL ES 2.0 requirement.
Physics will limit how powerful its hardware can function and size will too, especially with current tech. Get photonic or quantum computing, then that will change everything.
Screen size surely matters to me. I couldn't enjoy tiny screens. that is why I used the GameBoy player for GBA games back in the day through the GameCube to play on my TV. I wasn't a fan of staring at a small screen. Good way to strain your eyes too. Emulators make it better though.
Fact is, the desktop and even laptop is still superior in most ways. As for mobile, that can be a pro and a con. A con if you consider that you could drop it or it being easier to steal. Funny when I talk in facebook, and those who use mobile phones take much longer response, but I can send messages quick with my LED backlit keyboard. Also no worry about connection loss. With my wired 10Mbps ADSL, stability and speed is great. Desktops won't die.
It is good though that you won't ditch desktop. That would ruin everything
The point to be taken from this discussion is that mobile gaming is not only a viable but also, very enjoyable alternative that makes sense in situations where a full desktop is a hindrance for one reason or another. I am in no way suggesting that people should ditch their high-end desktops and play on mobiles.
Also note that the automated build system is configured to produce builds from the master branch of the repository only. Work may well be progressing in other branches that won't be included in the automated builds until such time as that work is 'merged' to the master.
There are a couple of important points that haven't been mentioned. Since OpenGL ES is a subset of desktop OpenGL, we can target both mobile and desktop platforms at the same time; we just have additional/improved rendering methods and resources for the desktop. Importantly, optimizing Doomsday for a low-end platform like a smartphone will also give a boost on high-end desktop rendering — these aren't mutually exclusive.
(It's also good to keep in mind that the Oculus Rift / VR rendering is very in the high end. As we rewrite Doomsday's renderer on top of OpenGL 3.3 / ES 2 API, it'll also get rid of much of the overhead of the old OpenGL 1.x rendering, giving better stereo 3D rendering performance.)
My work branches are completed for 1.15, but I'm on a break. I'll get back to work on Doomsday in October. I've now halted the automatic builder until DaniJ's work branch is done and merged.
However, my work branch is nearing completion now (including what would have been the post-merge clean up). There are some 220+ commits that I'm currently readying for merging to the master, featuring user-customizable Episodes, support for MAPINFO in all games and a few other related features. I expect this will be merge-able very soon.