3D models and high resolution graphics for DOOM

yannara

Last time I played Doom games with the engine and additional Graphics, was about year ago. Now I noticed, that engine has been developed a lot recently (based on version number and Facebook activity). So what about Graphics? Is the 3D model pack still required, and what is the latest version? A year ago we still used this: http://www.gamefront.com/files/17328814 ... fixes.pk3/

Has there been any improvements and enchacement last year on graphic side?

Vermil

The 3D model pack is not and was never 'required' to play Dday.

There have been some small improvements to Dday's appearance over the year, but nothing has changed with regards to model support yet. The rewrite isn't quite complete yet, so major visual improvements are still in future plans.

However, it is planned that the next release of Dday (1.13), will feature new and rewritten dynamic light rendering, which will notably improve their appearence.
http://tracker.skyjake.fi/issues/6
http://tracker.skyjake.fi/issues/1362

yannara

Thanks for quick reply. I can´t watch on those 2D-models, that´s why for me 3D models are always "required". I wonder, will those packs be still separate, or will we see All-in-1 engine with build-in 3D-models and high-resolution graphs some day?

Vermil

I doubt models, textures and such will ever be bundled with the engine in any official capacity (i.e by Deng Team themselves), if nothing else due to their file size.

gary

yannara wrote:

Thanks for quick reply. I can´t watch on those 2D-models, that´s why for me 3D models are always "required". I wonder, will those packs be still separate, or will we see All-in-1 engine with build-in 3D-models and high-resolution graphs some day?

They will probably stay separate for a few reasons. First off, to give people the freedom to not use models. Second, because individuals release individual models that wouldn't be part of the pack, but I suppose one can just pop it in the folder to override the equivalent model in the pack. And 3rd, size as Vermil said.


However, since we can shut them off through the launcher, then even if they are packed into the engine, it would be ok and still give people the freedom to use sprites, though I prefer models too. Besides, size with modern computers and connection speeds isn't a big deal much anymore. So all these reasons for not including the models might be moot.

I agree though, sprites, especially low res ones, have no place in 2013 or 2014. So I welcome the upgrades that are pending. Why people would still want to use blurry low res models with bad low res original Doom effects is beyond me, though it is their choice.

DaniJ

Including an arbitrary set of third-party add-ons along with the engine itself will do more harm than good. There is no logical reason to bundle them together other than a brief moment of convenience at the time the user installs. In my opinion there is absolutely no point in complicating everything to shave a few seconds from the end user's installation/setup time (in some cases), while forcing everyone else to download stuff they don't even want.

yannara

And the last question - if I want to start a Doom saga multiplay with my friends today or a near future, what 3D models and high res packs I should download? I haven´t been fallowing the developement recently. Someone pointed here already, that 1.13 release will bring some denefits, but what about Graphics?

yannara

Is there any new 3D models, add-ons for Dengine, or are the last high texture mods and 3D pieces still from the year 2010?

My point earlier in this discussion was not to "require" to bundle all stuff to one package, I´m keen to know, is there some Graphics developement done near past next to the engine itself?

The thing which bugs me in the out-of-the-box game (without graphic add-ons), is 2D figures and objects.

gary

Yes, I agree that sprites have no place in 2014, let alone extremely low res ones. How could anyone possibility enjoy playing with these low res, too blurry to tell, poor sprites and effects? The sprite monster death animation is only like 3 frames and explosions are so awful with equally bad frames per second, it is disturbing. I mean back in the day (around 1997-98-99 for me) when I played Doom for the first time, (Doom II in pc, Ultimate Doom, Doom II, and Final Doom for PSX, and Doom 64) I thought the graphics were decent and that Doom 64 was outstanding. Looking back now and having the stuff we have now, I could not enjoy it if I reverted. Funny back then, I didn't really know what a sprite was and didn't even notice the 2D-ness of the monsters and objects because I didn't pay attention to the fat they always faced me, but when I was playing Doom 64 in that level before you enter hell (a cave) and I saw a caco on the ground dead from higher up, I noticed it looked strange, because it was flat looking and a sprite looks very odd when it is still on screen and you are higher up. The 64 version looks better than the pc and psx sprites, but still low in detail by today's, and even yesterday's standards.

I think the newest stuff is Tea Monster's pinky and cacodemon and Kingennio's improvements, but those were released in 2011, IIRC. I use some sitter monster models combined with Kingennio's and Tea Monster's. I use the sitter's arch vile, revenant, imp, cyber demon, spider mastermind, Lost soul, arachnatron, and mancubis, and Tea Monster's caco and pinky. The rest are from Kingennio as well as all decorations and other models. Doomsday is still obsolete and in the process of being improved, especially obsolete are the models. It is like 2001 (some models worse) detail in 2014 :P I'm kind of waiting for it to get better before I play it more.

The engine is improved and a lot of code is new since 2011, but I doubt there are many graphical changes in the renderer (maybe barely) and I'm going to assume that there is still dynamic light slowdown and particle effect issues and limitations. They are trying to improve the engine sufficiently and allow support for new model formats and normal maps before working on newer models, with the exception of a Hell Knight that Skyjake is working on. I think it was Skyjake. Once they improve it enough, I imagine there will be massive and quicker progress on the model front.

Vermil

Deng team are building the foundations to improve the visuals of everything; it would probably be pretty trivial to add support for a new model format, but if the rest of the world doesn't get similar treatment, they will stick out and make things look worse over all.

It's consistency at the end of the day.

gary

It has crossed my mind on whether or not they would have to go in and modify every single original map to transform it into a new environment and geometry in order to take advantage of the new renderer. also all those mods would have to do the same or they would look just like they do even with a new renderer (as far as geometry goes). Like how the Eternal mod or really no fan-made Doom mod has high res textures or hi res skies, despite the fact that doomsday supports it.

splitterface

gary wrote:

....before working on newer models, with the exception of a Hell Knight that Skyjake is working on. I think it was Skyjake. Once they improve it enough, I imagine there will be massive and quicker progress on the model front.

there's quite active working on new models actually by kurikai and teamonster,
as you can see in the dmp2 thread in addons subforums:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=877&start=70


hellbaron, spider mastermind, cyberdemon, imp, mancubus, cacodaemon, lost soul, archvile
all have new models in the works by these two superb modellers

gary

I forgot about all those entries. I even posted in that same thread right here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=877&start=80#p10463

yannara

I´m experiencing graphical glitches because of the 3D mods. So I first troubleshooted the problem By disabling all add-ons and no glitches anymore. Though, for a long time I saw Doom with original models, and it felt even better without, but still seeing pixels and 2D objects is not what I want. It would be awsome if objects would be original, but with much better graphic textures. The 3D mods changes the objects too much I think.

yannara

Should I still use old graphic addons with 1.15? Or has there been some new releases lately? Thanks.

gary

I don't think any new release have been out in quite a while. I think they are waiting for better render implementation before finishing new model packs so they can take advantage of the new engine. There is a new texture pack though.

yannara

Hello guys. After 2.1.1 is released with better MP, I hope, what are the current or in near-future to use high graphics and objects? Or shoult I today go with clean game so far?