Well, when it comes to PWADs and not even having the ability to play mp3s or oggs anymore, and the mp3 file type is not a new music file type. Also, everything is out of date and in PWADs like Eternal, you see glitches through certain parts of the walls (and this was said to be fixed in beta 6, I thought) when you have steps and you can see right through them.
All of which are known, minor issues that will be addressed in a future release. Remember, this is beta software.
You say that a certain number of dynamic lights or worldy lights slows down the game...
I said nothing of the sort. Whilst activating dynamic lights will certainly have an effect on performance, the degree of which is negligible.
There is however some known performance bottle necks which are rooted deeply in the core of the renderer (not a result of any particular effects such as dynamic lights or fakeradio) which are only present so that we can continue to make releases (they are bridging "gaps" in the current architecture as we transition to the proposed 2.0 design). These issues will be addressed at a later time.
Also, to not even be able to correctly display low-res textures in old WADs like Eternal seems odd.
There is no problem with displaying/loading the textures. The issues with Eternal is that it uses just about every single DOOM.exe rendering trick known to man. Support for these tricks is currently non-existent but will be re-implemented in a future release.
I just keep reading about many limitations lately, like you and maybe others saying "Doomsday can't do this; can't do that. Doomsday only allows a number of this, and only allows that". Things like that.
On the whole, what has been discussed lately on these forums have been very specific PWAD compatibility issues mostly involving DOOM.exe rendering tricks. As mentioned above, there is no support for the vast majority of these tricks presently because the old mechanisms which were implemented to handle them were removed because they would cause just as many problems as they solved. These issues will be addressed but at present they are rather low priority.
the inability to have the hi-res pack replace only the textures in Eternal that are also used in Doom/Doom II and still be able to have the normal PWAD textures appear where they should. That way, I can play Eternal without being forced to play with almost all textures being low-res just to be able to see the ones made for Eternal.
This is a long standing issue that has been present in Doomsday since high resolution texture support was first implemented. Again, this is an issue that will be addressed later when convenient to do so (i.e., after the implementation of DED reader 2.0 and the subsequent revision of the materials system).
Can you please zip those music files and email them to me (danij@dengine.net) so I can try to debug the problem. I will state again that with 1.9.0-beta6.6 and SDL_mixer as the audio plugin; MP3/OGG playback works just fine for me with the handful of addons I used to test it.
Ehm, the whole pack, or just enough to test? :P
I'll e-mail you two tracks for now; d_runnin.mp3, and D_DM2TTL.mp3. Load up Doom2 with the SDL_Mixer, and the menu music (d_dm2ttl) will sometimes play (like I stated earlier). However, upon loading the first map in Doom2, I don't hear D_RUNNING.mp3 play at all.
Actually, while we are on the topic - If anyone has the web space - uploading the entire Playstation Music pack I have would probably be a nice thing to do for the community. The music I have is higher quality than the rest of the PSX Doom music you can find out there. I'll make another thread about this in the Doom addons section.
I get a Segmentation violation in Hexen MAP04 (Guardian of Fire) after crossing a certain line, after you entered the map with the portal in MAP03 (Guardian of Ice).
Please submit a bug report about the problem.
Bug report submitted.
According to the MP3-support
In Hexen MP3 files aren't working. He shows the following error message in the console:
DS_SDLMixer_Music_PlayFile: Error Module format not recognized.
However, after converting all the files to WAV the music is played correctly.
We may decide to update the release packages given its only been a day or so since we put it out but in the meantime, I have uploaded the fixed versions of these DED files here should you wish to resolve it yourself, now:
KuriKai, you are the maintainer of the webspace, yes? Well... someone needs to allow hotlinking as these are forbidden! At least, use a referer check for *.dengine.net only or something (I tried going to the files mirror first then going to these direct links, still forbidden). Or has the Beta 6.6 package binary already been updated with these last-minute patches?
EDIT: Right-click, save target as results in saving the forbidden text :P I'm sure this is a security issue on the web server (I do not have any referrer blocking things in my Browser or Firewall/Security Software enabled). Please just take a quick look at your .htaccess file for us O:-)
All that stuff about MP3's inside WAD's not working
You're considering re-implementing this feature DaniJ? I don't see the point. A WAD should only be for raw Doom engine data, not Doomsday-specific resources. They should be defined in a ZIP/PK3/Addon Box and assigned with definitions. If anything, I personally think Doomsday should be 100% capable of playing PWAD levels that have been converted to a PK3 format as the ZIP/PK3 structure is a more ambiguous and easily workable format [Read: WAD lump editors REALLY suck compared to e.g. WinRAR or even Vista Shell Extension/Zip Folders]. Just my two cents though.
I can honestly say that (for me at least) stability has improved considerably over the course of the 1.9.0 betas. Although we have a lot of work remaining to be done to fix the (relatively minor) bugs which have result in the process.
Stability is great. With the exception of the addons (particularly 3d models and hires textures/shinemaps and whatnot) which is understandable since they have become bigger than their boots, all the core engine stuff seems fast and solid. I plan to start replaying all the games shortly with the Beta 6.6 release to try and find noteworthy things [and to have fun of course].
~~~
Part of the reason why TC's are failing is their reliance on DeHacked I assumed. I plan to run through MegaWads and mods of the ages old, convert them to PK3 formats with DED's where possible (or raw map files, whatever is relevant) and try to eliminate the DEH and tricky-WAD stuff. Of course it will be a gradual thing as the engine develops towards Deng2, however I think it is a good idea to "update" all these 10-year old modifications to work specifically with Doomsday. I am happy to do this as I continue to learn more about the Doomsday internals.
I specifically wrote in the read me for my maps that this could happen because that was what my testers told me. My last mapset I also said to disable all but HUD models in JDoom or you would see funny things.
Could you not use a DED to destroy/over-ride the loaded addons in this event? I'm sure there is an easier way to make a port-independant map by providing some kind of compatibility layer. Or maybe the opposite: Doomsday will automatically disable all addons unless the 3rd-party map specifically makes an "include" reference, i.e. to flag that it is tested and aware of Doomsday resources. This brings me back to that "Addon Status" thread I started a while ago, and to why I think some form of widely-known standardization is important.
At present Doomsday does not cache node data at all.
I can't imagine that's too important a feature. I havn't tried some of the huge maps out there lately, but Doomsday seems to load any IWAD level very fast (the biggest loading times appear to be from models and textures).
The only bug I can think of off the top of my head that I'd like to see fixed from the original Doom is Lost Souls getting stuck outside the map from Pain Elementals exploding in a tight space.
Quoted for truth. Been waiting ten years for that fix, It's great to hear Doomsday fixed it - i'm not aware of another port that has!
Dani, I quickly went ahead and unpackaged my Playstation Doom MP3 WAD into data\jdoom\music to test it out, and Mp3s still have issues. With the SDL_Mixer, the menu music will only sometimes play; other times, I will hear a split second of the music before it stops. If I go to start a new singleplayer game, there is no more music at all upon loading the first level.
My PK3 music pack that I built myself works 100%. It has some Ogg Vorbis and other MP3 and is defined with DED's. You will need to build an addon an test it that way I think. Let me check out the Wiki and if there's not much info on it, i'll create a page on making an example music pack with my set as the example (which works in Beta 6.6 flawlessly ) )
gary, about your complaints and being unhappy with Doomsday, just as DaniJ said. It's beta, and what he didn't mention is that it's free. This is an ongoing project, not a commercial production, so it's important for us to be polite, be supportive and helpful, and to donate if we want to see it succeed
Part of the reason why TC's are failing is their reliance on DeHacked I assumed. I plan to run through MegaWads and mods of the ages old, convert them to PK3 formats with DED's where possible (or raw map files, whatever is relevant) and try to eliminate the DEH and tricky-WAD stuff. Of course it will be a gradual thing as the engine develops towards Deng2, however I think it is a good idea to "update" all these 10-year old modifications to work specifically with Doomsday. I am happy to do this as I continue to learn more about the Doomsday internals.
Wait, I thought Dehacked was previously supported with Doomsday. Has it become broken? I sure hope the beta versions haven't made even more Megawads unplayable... I was hoping, if anything, that MORE megawads would be playable. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Why do I always end up liking the game engines that people don't build levels for? The same thing happens to me in Quake. My favorite engine doesn't work with a few of the most popular modern map packs... Huge shame.
Don't be mistaken, i am only speaking from personal experience. FYI, there is a line between a megawad and a mod - mega wads never had dehacked files traditionally, otherwise they are mods or tc's. (Doom II Master Levels is a perfect example of a MegaWad). Anyway, the mods (ones with a WAD and DEH's) typically modify the original functions of doom in unsupported and undocumented ways - they HACK it - and while Deng clearly states that it supports most (nearly all) dehacked techniques, in actuality these mods rarely perform as intended because they are usually accompanied with such engine tricking mods already mentioned. Or were simply designed for a specific port. Or are years old and never since updated. There are too many variables to consider and standardization for such a thing was never really established since the great source code release.
AFAIK, the objective of the DED format is to redeem these dehack emulations redundant.
Regardless, Deng is a pioneering engine. If you just want to play old mods from yester-year and beyond, maybe you should try another sourceport. Isn't variety great?
Try Doomsday 1.8.6 - that's the last and newest stable release.
DehackED support remains an important feature and we will continue to support it. In fact, over the course of the 1.9.0-beta series, support for DehackED patches has improved a fair bit. Unfortunately though there are still many issues when trying to use such a mod in combination with e.g., jDRP or in some cases (Batman DOOM for example) where the DEH does things the engine simply doesn't handle all to well (in Batman DOOM nearly all sprite frames are made fullbright which Doomsday interprets as "emitting light" and so they are given light sources and halos automatically).
In addition there are some noticeable feature omissions like full BEX codepointer support.
Completely understandable. The 'fullbright' attribute you mentioned, in reference to my last post i mean, would be an example of a mod technique specific to original Doom feature set; misinterpreted by the modern engine. That makes sense?
I cant imagine how many more quirks there are to deal with. Seeing an example now though really does explain it, its not really a bug - just a conflict with legacy/backwards compatibility.
KuriKai, you are the maintainer of the webspace, yes? Well... someone needs to allow hotlinking as these are forbidden! At least, use a referer check for *.dengine.net only or something (I tried going to the files mirror first then going to these direct links, still forbidden). Or has the Beta 6.6 package binary already been updated with these last-minute patches?
Should now be fixed. Our .htaccess was missing the non-canonical variant for the dengine.net domain.
Right on! Now direct-links from these forums and the Wiki page will work I tested direct-linking from a new tab and it's still forbidden, so yes it's all good.
Sorry if I sound like I'm complaining, really I do. I'm not a hard-core fanatic like some of the forum-prowlers seem to be, just a regular guy glad I can play my old games again in a great new system. I just had a question about one of the 'upcoming releases'.
jHexen... the getting stuck in moving objects thing. I see that it's been discussed on the tech support forum (http://www.dengine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=100 <--Here), but I was just wondering if there was a scheduled release where the fix will be implemented. I know there's only so much you can do per release, but I didn't see anything on the bug tracker, and it is a little bit game-breaking... and I know it's all good in 1.8.6, and I should just play that instead of complaining about a beta release... but I really love this engine and program, and I'd love to get the most that I possibly can out of it.
I would imagine probably not, DaniJ asked in that thread for someone to submit it to the bug tracker and if nobody did then it won't be fixed. I would do it myself but i've got my hands full and am not familiar with the problem anyway.
That's what I did and that's where I didn't found this structure. Well I saw a pk3 somewhere inside the package the structure is perhaps inside it.
EDIT:
I search more and nothing. Inside Doomsday package, Contents here various stuff including jDoom.bundle but also Doomsday wich is another package, most probably for the engine itself not the front end. In this package I have Contents/Resources, in this Data but nothing but few graphics, some other stuff and doomsday.pk3.
I unzip doomsday.pk3, in it I have a defs folder but in it, doomsday.ded + flags.ded + xg.ded
Ok thanks that's a hint but I wonder how I unpack and pack .bundle files, quote there's in fact jDoom.bundle but also jHeretic.bundle and jHexen.bundle. Those aren't zip files.
EDIT: I finally found it in the OS X package, it's in: Doomsday Engine.app/Contents/jDoom.bundle/Contents/Resources/jDoom.pk3
To open a .bundle it's like opening a package .app. And if I unzip jDoom.pk3, in it defs/jdoom/*.ded like doom1maps.ded
Comments
There is however some known performance bottle necks which are rooted deeply in the core of the renderer (not a result of any particular effects such as dynamic lights or fakeradio) which are only present so that we can continue to make releases (they are bridging "gaps" in the current architecture as we transition to the proposed 2.0 design). These issues will be addressed at a later time. There is no problem with displaying/loading the textures. The issues with Eternal is that it uses just about every single DOOM.exe rendering trick known to man. Support for these tricks is currently non-existent but will be re-implemented in a future release. On the whole, what has been discussed lately on these forums have been very specific PWAD compatibility issues mostly involving DOOM.exe rendering tricks. As mentioned above, there is no support for the vast majority of these tricks presently because the old mechanisms which were implemented to handle them were removed because they would cause just as many problems as they solved. These issues will be addressed but at present they are rather low priority. This is a long standing issue that has been present in Doomsday since high resolution texture support was first implemented. Again, this is an issue that will be addressed later when convenient to do so (i.e., after the implementation of DED reader 2.0 and the subsequent revision of the materials system).
Ehm, the whole pack, or just enough to test? :P
I'll e-mail you two tracks for now; d_runnin.mp3, and D_DM2TTL.mp3. Load up Doom2 with the SDL_Mixer, and the menu music (d_dm2ttl) will sometimes play (like I stated earlier). However, upon loading the first map in Doom2, I don't hear D_RUNNING.mp3 play at all.
Actually, while we are on the topic - If anyone has the web space - uploading the entire Playstation Music pack I have would probably be a nice thing to do for the community. The music I have is higher quality than the rest of the PSX Doom music you can find out there. I'll make another thread about this in the Doom addons section.
Bug report submitted.
According to the MP3-support
In Hexen MP3 files aren't working. He shows the following error message in the console:
DS_SDLMixer_Music_PlayFile: Error Module format not recognized.
However, after converting all the files to WAV the music is played correctly.
EDIT: Right-click, save target as results in saving the forbidden text :P I'm sure this is a security issue on the web server (I do not have any referrer blocking things in my Browser or Firewall/Security Software enabled). Please just take a quick look at your .htaccess file for us O:-)
You're considering re-implementing this feature DaniJ? I don't see the point. A WAD should only be for raw Doom engine data, not Doomsday-specific resources. They should be defined in a ZIP/PK3/Addon Box and assigned with definitions. If anything, I personally think Doomsday should be 100% capable of playing PWAD levels that have been converted to a PK3 format as the ZIP/PK3 structure is a more ambiguous and easily workable format [Read: WAD lump editors REALLY suck compared to e.g. WinRAR or even Vista Shell Extension/Zip Folders]. Just my two cents though.
Stability is great. With the exception of the addons (particularly 3d models and hires textures/shinemaps and whatnot) which is understandable since they have become bigger than their boots, all the core engine stuff seems fast and solid. I plan to start replaying all the games shortly with the Beta 6.6 release to try and find noteworthy things [and to have fun of course].
~~~
Part of the reason why TC's are failing is their reliance on DeHacked I assumed. I plan to run through MegaWads and mods of the ages old, convert them to PK3 formats with DED's where possible (or raw map files, whatever is relevant) and try to eliminate the DEH and tricky-WAD stuff. Of course it will be a gradual thing as the engine develops towards Deng2, however I think it is a good idea to "update" all these 10-year old modifications to work specifically with Doomsday. I am happy to do this as I continue to learn more about the Doomsday internals.
Could you not use a DED to destroy/over-ride the loaded addons in this event? I'm sure there is an easier way to make a port-independant map by providing some kind of compatibility layer. Or maybe the opposite: Doomsday will automatically disable all addons unless the 3rd-party map specifically makes an "include" reference, i.e. to flag that it is tested and aware of Doomsday resources. This brings me back to that "Addon Status" thread I started a while ago, and to why I think some form of widely-known standardization is important.
I can't imagine that's too important a feature. I havn't tried some of the huge maps out there lately, but Doomsday seems to load any IWAD level very fast (the biggest loading times appear to be from models and textures).
Quoted for truth. Been waiting ten years for that fix, It's great to hear Doomsday fixed it - i'm not aware of another port that has!
My PK3 music pack that I built myself works 100%. It has some Ogg Vorbis and other MP3 and is defined with DED's. You will need to build an addon an test it that way I think. Let me check out the Wiki and if there's not much info on it, i'll create a page on making an example music pack with my set as the example (which works in Beta 6.6 flawlessly
gary, about your complaints and being unhappy with Doomsday, just as DaniJ said. It's beta, and what he didn't mention is that it's free. This is an ongoing project, not a commercial production, so it's important for us to be polite, be supportive and helpful, and to donate if we want to see it succeed
Wait, I thought Dehacked was previously supported with Doomsday. Has it become broken? I sure hope the beta versions haven't made even more Megawads unplayable... I was hoping, if anything, that MORE megawads would be playable. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Why do I always end up liking the game engines that people don't build levels for? The same thing happens to me in Quake. My favorite engine doesn't work with a few of the most popular modern map packs... Huge shame.
AFAIK, the objective of the DED format is to redeem these dehack emulations redundant.
Regardless, Deng is a pioneering engine. If you just want to play old mods from yester-year and beyond, maybe you should try another sourceport. Isn't variety great?
Try Doomsday 1.8.6 - that's the last and newest stable release.
In addition there are some noticeable feature omissions like full BEX codepointer support.
Ultimately this will all be addressed given time
I cant imagine how many more quirks there are to deal with. Seeing an example now though really does explain it, its not really a bug - just a conflict with legacy/backwards compatibility.
Sorry if I sound like I'm complaining, really I do. I'm not a hard-core fanatic like some of the forum-prowlers seem to be, just a regular guy glad I can play my old games again in a great new system. I just had a question about one of the 'upcoming releases'.
jHexen... the getting stuck in moving objects thing. I see that it's been discussed on the tech support forum (http://www.dengine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=100 <--Here), but I was just wondering if there was a scheduled release where the fix will be implemented. I know there's only so much you can do per release, but I didn't see anything on the bug tracker, and it is a little bit game-breaking... and I know it's all good in 1.8.6, and I should just play that instead of complaining about a beta release... but I really love this engine and program, and I'd love to get the most that I possibly can out of it.
Any word from the guys upstairs?
I would imagine probably not, DaniJ asked in that thread for someone to submit it to the bug tracker and if nobody did then it won't be fixed. I would do it myself but i've got my hands full and am not familiar with the problem anyway.
right click on it and select "browse" or something worded similar to that
EDIT:
I search more and nothing. Inside Doomsday package, Contents here various stuff including jDoom.bundle but also Doomsday wich is another package, most probably for the engine itself not the front end. In this package I have Contents/Resources, in this Data but nothing but few graphics, some other stuff and doomsday.pk3.
I unzip doomsday.pk3, in it I have a defs folder but in it, doomsday.ded + flags.ded + xg.ded
EDIT: I finally found it in the OS X package, it's in: Doomsday Engine.app/Contents/jDoom.bundle/Contents/Resources/jDoom.pk3
To open a .bundle it's like opening a package .app. And if I unzip jDoom.pk3, in it defs/jdoom/*.ded like doom1maps.ded