MD2/DMD Submodel Limit

NiuHaka

I'm trying to find what the max number of md2/dmd submodels I can have on any given object such as a monster or a weapon is. I seem to remember it being something like 8 sub-models but I'm having trouble finding that information for some reason.

Also curious as to whether this limit can/will be raised in the future.

Vermil

It is 8 yes: http://www.dengine.net/dew/index.php?ti ... 8or_Md2.29

It's also my understanding that the random skin feature also has a limit of 8.

NiuHaka

Hey there it is. Thanks V!

... I'm hoping that is an arbitrary number and that it can be increased. I doubt it but I hope it all the same.

DaniJ

The sub model limit is more or less arbitrary. It could be increased but then I'd like to know your reasons for needing more than eight independent models per object.

NiuHaka

We are "rebuilding" our models to add some variety to each monster/Item type. So for example, we will have several varieties of the zombieman where one might have no shoulder pad, another will have one shoulder pad and another will have two. Also separated the different armor materials to add different degrees of the shiny effect and separated eyes to add fullbright. There are all kinds of cool Doomsday Engine features I've built these new models for but the submodel limit was causing me to trim down some of those ideas.

An extreme example of what we'd like to do is to have a zombieman state that is made up of submodels for head, right eye, left eye, armor, cloth, right shoulder pad, left shoulder pad, right arm, left arm, right glove, left glove, butt-pack, right boot, left boot, gun, gun flash. This would allow for a wide range of variety for any given monster.

Also I have discovered that the md2/dmd vertex wobbling is less noticeable when the models are smaller so having smaller submodels to make up one larger one can potentially decrease that depending on how far away from the model origin the vertices are.

DaniJ

@NiuHaka: I appreciate your reasoning. We'll see about increasing the limit...

Also I have discovered that the md2/dmd vertex wobbling is less noticeable when the models are smaller so having smaller submodels to make up one larger one can potentially decrease that depending on how far away from the model origin the vertices are.

Its not actually the size of the sub model that affects this. Rather it is how great the distance is between the two farthest vertices in the sub model (relative to the actual center, not (0, 0, 0)). The smaller this value is the less it will be affected by "vertex swimming" (which is caused by quantization of the sub model's coordinate space).

@Vermil: The danger with that approach is that one's performance requirements are an unknown quantity. Though I certainly appreciate your point of view.

NiuHaka

@DaniJ:
That is awesome! So this really could help the vert swimming/wobbling/jumping even more than I thought. I love it. Looking at my current "submodels" now in their current state the vertex swimming would be almost undetectable. The largest submodel is less than half the size of the full model which in theory should give the verts less than half the "swimming" distance.
EDIT: At least I think that is the case lol

What are the chances that Doomsday would support more submodels in the near future?

bcwood16

This is really good stuff!

I have also been hoping to increase the sub model limit. So far I have been able to stick within the limits, however this would increase flexibility a lot and in return enable some fantastic models...hopefully

I was going to do a test and see if going over the limit of 8 would work?

If not, how hard would it be to have a little patch until its incorporated properly....sorry im very enthusiastic

skyjake

In this Friday's unstable build (#860), the submodel limit will be removed: you can use any number of submodels in a model.

NiuHaka

I know i've said it before but I love you guys.

bcwood16

Amazing!!

Said it before and will say it again, support here is amazing

Vermil

May be cheeky to ask, but how is Ascension coming along; haven't heard/seen anything about it for a fair while now?

NiuHaka

Well, we went bellow the radar, learned a bunch of new stuff, looked back at what we had... and then just had to, HAD TO make some changes. bcwood16 helped me get the pistol working in the game and I think it looks so good it kind of made all the other models look unimpressive. I'm going to toot my horn and say it is looking beautiful and it will look even better once we get these submodels with all their separate DE effects into the game. I think that what we'll have in the coming months will make this much more fun for users to create maps for. Thats all subjective of course and there will be those who have strong apposing opinions but I'm very happy with this project.