Mouse lag is back.

Lightning Hunter

I've been away for a while, but decided to try installing build 591 today. I noticed right away that the terrible mouse lag is back again. I had this problem once before, but fixed it by turning the pre-render limit for my Nvidia card to 4, and setting input-mouse-filter to "0" in the game. However, I noticed that input-mouse-filter is gone. Was it changed, or removed? If it was removed, is there a similar command?

Edit: Never mind, I figured out the new command: "input-sharp". Now the mouse lag is gone again. Shouldn't input-sharp be set to 0 by default? I get horrible mouse lag with the default setting of 1.

On a side note, I can't believe the E1m7 column bug is still around!
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.ph ... tid=542099

DaniJ

Input-sharp should not be off by default no, as the latency that this introduces is present in the original game(s). Removing that latency noticeably changes the way the game feels, i.e., it no longer plays like good ole' DOOM.

That E1M7 column issue will be dealt with shortly. It's not exactly a trivial fix or indeed even a "bug" in the traditional sense. Its caused because the engine uses far higher precision (64-bit double floating point) than the original game(s) (which use 16.16 fixed point). Also, its not that big of deal in the grand scheme of things, it only affects a very small number of maps. Right now we've much more important/urgent work to be done.

smoke.tetsu

Just tried input-sharp to 0 and I like it! To hell with it playing 100% exactly like good ole' DOOM. Besides, we've already crossed that bridge by adding in mouselook and jumping a long time ago not to mention all the other enhanced features. :P We've all here been playing our own custom versions of DOOM for ages now not ye olde DOOM. In fact I don't want any artificial latency on top of the innate latency my display and input devices most likely already have. I'm sure John Carmack would agree.

In fact I was almost thinking I was having performance problems with Doomsday because of that CVAR... especially after having played a marathon gaming session of WinROTTGL in WINE and then switching over to Doomsday.

Vermil

DaniJ wrote:

That E1M7 column issue will be dealt with shortly... Also, its not that big of deal in the grand scheme of things, it only affects a very small number of maps.

I wouldn't say it's that trivial. It prevents HeXen DK from being completed. Due to it a required wall on Sump (not the same level as I mentioned in a comment in the bug report) won't lower.

Lightning Hunter

smoke.tetsu wrote:

Just tried input-sharp to 0 and I like it! To hell with it playing 100% exactly like good ole' DOOM. Besides, we've already crossed that bridge by adding in mouselook and jumping a long time ago not to mention all the other enhanced features. :P We've all here been playing our own custom versions of DOOM for ages now not ye olde DOOM. In fact I don't want any artificial latency on top of the innate latency my display and input devices most likely already have. I'm sure John Carmack would agree.

I have to agree with Smoke on this. In my opinion, adding mouse latency to match the original Doom is comparable to capping the fps at 30, or defaulting to the pixelated software rendering (since that is also how the Classic Doom was). I use Doomsday for the enhancements, after all. I really think input-sharp should be defaulted to 0, and if people really want the classic Doom feel, they can enable it. I have no clue who would want to add mouse latency, though. I can never stand games that have any sort of mouse lag, no matter how minor it is.

Also, shouldn't the command be renamed to input-mouse-sharp, to keep the proper prefix format? I almost didn't notice the command, since it doesn't have "mouse" in the name.

DaniJ

Vermil wrote:

DaniJ wrote:

That E1M7 column issue will be dealt with shortly... Also, its not that big of deal in the grand scheme of things, it only affects a very small number of maps.

I wouldn't say it's that trivial. It prevents HeXen DK from being completed. Due to it a required wall on Sump (not the same level as I mentioned in a comment in the bug report) won't lower.

You misunderstand what I said. I said that the fix was not trivial, i.e., that it requires a not-insignificant amount of work, not that the bug itself was trivial.

Lightning Hunter wrote:

I have to agree with Smoke on this. In my opinion, adding mouse latency to match the original Doom is comparable to capping the fps at 30, or defaulting to the pixelated software rendering (since that is also how the Classic Doom was). I use Doomsday for the enhancements, after all. I really think input-sharp should be defaulted to 0, and if people really want the classic Doom feel, they can enable it. I have no clue who would want to add mouse latency, though. I can never stand games that have any sort of mouse lag, no matter how minor it is.

Also, shouldn't the command be renamed to input-mouse-sharp, to keep the proper prefix format? I almost didn't notice the command, since it doesn't have "mouse" in the name.

No it shouldn't be renamed because its not just the mouse that suffers that latency, all game input processing is affected including the keyboard.

Inherent with the additional latency are timing idiosyncrasies. As I said, if removed these details radically change the way the game feels. Although some may like it, others will wonder what the hell is going on.

smoke.tetsu

Well, at least that cvar is in there and one can turn it off if they wish. So please leave it in there.. don't remove it forcing people to use it even if they don't want to. For me personally the changes are positive if any.

Vermil

Given the talk about the control lag, maybe it could become a menu option? As the menu is basically a visual representation of the most commonly used and/or important console cvars.

DaniJ

Its not just one cvar that governs this stuff, there is a whole set of them. It seems to me that what is being asked for is a single button that allows the user to easily disable all input latencies in the original game(s)?

Lightning Hunter

DaniJ wrote:

Its not just one cvar that governs this stuff, there is a whole set of them. It seems to me that what is being asked for is a single button that allows the user to easily disable all input latencies in the original game(s)?

So there are other latency options? What are they?

skyjake

Lightning Hunter wrote:

In my opinion, adding mouse latency to match the original Doom is comparable to capping the fps at 30, or defaulting to the pixelated software rendering (since that is also how the Classic Doom was). I use Doomsday for the enhancements, after all. I really think input-sharp should be defaulted to 0, and if people really want the classic Doom feel, they can enable it.

I agree. IMO, as the project aims to target modern day gamers, we should set the defaults accordingly. Personally I prefer zero latency, but I can definitely see what a subtle difference in the feel of the player controls means to veteran players. The best solution here is to offer a clear configuration option for selecting between "modern" and "classic" controls; this is already in the planning pipeline.