Doomsday Community Site - Your thoughts?

JonusC

I'd like anyone and everyone with an opinion on this to chime in - particularly the Deng staff if they feel inclined to do so (it would be great).

In light of recent discussions such as this post and this discussion, I present the following questions to anyone who has their thoughts.

1) Does Doom need a new Community Site/Forum? Particularly, something for 3rd-party Doomsday mods and resources, and a place where people can talk and share ideas on projects?
2) Would the Doomsday developers and their users like the idea of taking some load off the official forums, without being worried about unofficial material [i.e. the site would be not officially affiliated with Doomsday]? Or do they like and prefer the idea of these forums being a discussion place for Mod Authors/Artists to throw around random bits of code and creations?
3) Could this new domain and webhost that I am, for one of possibly many, volunteering to register and build, be a place for a future Ranking Boards/Tournament (such as my ambitious project to create a Doomsday remake version of Doom Wars) for when Doomsday's Multiplayer overhaul finishes?
4) If yes to the above three, who would like to help? [Winks at the bigger names we have here: Ravencraft, Psychikon, and the names of others I can't remember - if you don't know if you're one of these, you probably arn't]

Your thoughts?

P.S. I know i'm a nobody to all you guys (lol) but hey... i'm just 'spinning' here, putting it out there.

skyjake

JonusC wrote:

1) Does Doom need a new Community Site/Forum? Particularly, something for 3rd-party Doomsday mods and resources, and a place where people can talk and share ideas on projects?

That is exactly what dengine.net/forums is about. Setting up another site/forum seems rather redundant?

JonusC wrote:

2) Would the Doomsday developers and their users like the idea of taking some load off the official forums, without being worried about unofficial material [i.e. the site would be not officially affiliated with Doomsday]? Or do they like and prefer the idea of these forums being a discussion place for Mod Authors/Artists to throw around random bits of code and creations?

The reason we moved to dengine.net was to create a single site for all Doomsday-related things. We are happy to create subforums for specific (larger) addons/projects that are Doomsday-derived/related. (And you can become a moderator on said subforums if you like.)

JonusC wrote:

3) Could this new domain and webhost that I am, for one of possibly many, volunteering to register and build, be a place for a future Ranking Boards/Tournament (such as my ambitious project to create a Doomsday remake version of Doom Wars) for when Doomsday's Multiplayer overhaul finishes?

IMO multiplayer features like ladders and tournaments should be hosted right here at dengine.net. If you wish to help implement such website features you are welcome to join the deng team and implement them here on dengine.net. (When the multiplayer is up and running.)

You are of course free to set up any websites you'd like, but personally I wish that everything that is related to Doomsday and the community would be on dengine.net.

JonusC

Hi skyjake,

This is all very good and nice. Could I then, for instance, predict a project process to be like so?

a) Person would like to start creating a multiplayer mod, a Total Conversion or a completely new game (eg, jStrife) but would like to have it made aware, in an effort to gain support and contributors
b) They start to get more active than one thread can really accommodate for, and apply to have it moved to a new subforum
c) Subforum is 99% freedom in functionality for project creators/maintainers



What are your thoughts on a jWolf3D texture pack from Mac? Or even hosting the console soundtracks and/or sound effects packages; OK? Or is Build-from-source installers preferred?

Or is that not the overall ideal?

Psychikon

You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of a song that I once heard on Sesame Street...

Cooperation...makes it happen! Cooperation! Working together!
(repeat)

I think, JonusC, that KuriKai for instance was working on a Doom modelpack place I think on SourceForge to where different model packs for the respective 3D-enhanced ports. I guess it's not a bad idea to integrate all of this stuff into a single place. That's how it's kind of falling together anyway with this site I think.

JonusC

Psychikon, I completely agree. The reason I started this post was because I really didn't know what the direction this forum was going to take. I was aware of the Sticky Threads on the addon section, but still had unanswered questions. It definately is a much better thing to keep it all under the same roof - the forums are only new but now I know that everything the community creates can be kept and maintained right here )

EDIT: I think the main pro of this centralization is the security aspect. As long as Doomsday lives, so will these forums and the Wiki. The creators are afterall, generous to their users, and that's all that needs to be said.

KuriKai

Psychikon wrote:

You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of a song that I once heard on Sesame Street...

Cooperation...makes it happen! Cooperation! Working together!
(repeat)

I think, JonusC, that KuriKai for instance was working on a Doom modelpack place I think on SourceForge to where different model packs for the respective 3D-enhanced ports. I guess it's not a bad idea to integrate all of this stuff into a single place. That's how it's kind of falling together anyway with this site I think.

The model pack i am working on (very very very very slowly) is hosted on freelanzers forums, because it is not specific to deng(just like the dhtp) although the new release of the dhtp are only for deng cause of the light and shinmaps

JonusC

KuriKai wrote:

The model pack i am working on (very very very very slowly) is hosted on freelanzers forums, because it is not specific to deng(just like the dhtp) although the new release of the dhtp are only for deng cause of the light and shinmaps

Well that makes sense to me because the 3D model and Texture project was around before these new forums were even up. Plus you have it in your signature anyway.

The DHTP is now Doomsday exclusive? That's news to me. Are you just only packaging it for Deng from now on, or have you actually stated in the licence that they are only permitted for use in Deng?

KuriKai

no not exclusive
different textures are used in the dhtp for deng because of the shinemaps
I need to change my packaging script so it packs the dhtp for other source ports using the older textures

JonusC

Ah yes I see what you mean, I could have looked at the download thread and gathered that. Doomsday comes first ey ) I suppose it is the most technically advanced port out there.

I've been meaning to take a crack at some of those textures that need doing too, some of them (rocks, gravel, etc) would be pretty easy to do in Aurora and some tweaking.

Psychikon

Speaking of the modelpack...
I hope that whoever makes the chaingun guy makes him look like Michael Clark Duncan or Tom Lister Jr.
I saw in the Sitters and Abbs modelpack for Risen3D that the chaingun guy instead looks more like Mr. Clean.

JonusC

Psychikon wrote:

Speaking of the modelpack...
I hope that whoever makes the chaingun guy makes him look like Michael Clark Duncan or Tom Lister Jr.
I saw in the Sitters and Abbs modelpack for Risen3D that the chaingun guy instead looks more like Mr. Clean.

Seconded! Mr. Clean... rofl.... yeah, I always saw the original Chaingun guy as a tanky-ass black dude as opposed to someone else that picture reminds me of. Plus those models look too quake2-ish IMO but I can't suggest anything better so I shouldn't criticise.

That kind of annoys me, why is Risen3D getting more attention than Doomsday in that department anyway? I honestly don't understand.

DaniJ

That would be because Sitters and Abbs (the guys responsible for the new models in the Risen3D model pack) are members of the Risen3D team.

However, to my knowledge Risen3D has not extended the external model support features in any way since they forked so with minimal work it should be possible to use those resources with Doomsday should you wish.

Psychikon

DaniJ wrote:

That would be because Sitters and Abbs (the guys responsible for the new models in the Risen3D model pack) are members of the Risen3D team.

However, to my knowledge Risen3D has not extended the external model support features in any way since they forked so with minimal work it should be possible to use those resources with Doomsday should you wish.

That reminds me... I was curious as to whether or not maps will be drawn up completely different, or if they will still be the same Doom maps, just with a ton of modifying line and sector types and stuff? For instance, whenever the "floor over floor" and/or sloped floors thing is achieved; that is to say, a true 3D environment instead of true 3D rendering of a 2D environment.

JonusC

what maps? Which engine? Lolwat?

Afaik true 3D is achieved right now only with md2 objects in the map, thats what i gathered. I.e. The map would just be a floorbase, a bridge would be a seperate mesh. obviously not ideal or practical but i think it works.

Psychikon

JonusC wrote:

what maps? Which engine? Lolwat?

Afaik true 3D is achieved right now only with md2 objects in the map, thats what i gathered. I.e. The map would just be a floorbase, a bridge would be a seperate mesh. obviously not ideal or practical but i think it works.

Well yeah, but I had thought that a true 3D environment was planned to be achieved... you know what? I'll do a search through the wiki!

I didn't find it

JonusC

Nah there's nothing on the Wiki. You're wondering about a new MAP format... or something like that? I suppose all that, along with the new model format, is unplanned for a post-Deng2 addition. I.e. at least a year away :-/

The use of MD2's as static in-map objects e.g. bridge or building, it was discussed in NewDoom sometime back when I was a silent stalker . I remember reading a thread where DaniJ, KuriKai and Hexagon (among others) talked about it and there was an example of how a WAD with a DED could achieve this. Since I saved the thread on my PC (it was taken from Web Archive, Newdoom was down and I feared permanently) I don't have a link i'm afraid...

The thread title was "Jdoom Arena". Here's an interesting, mid-conversation quote from DaniJ:

#

---

# THING DEFINITION

Thing {
ID = "BRIDGE"
DoomEd number = 7005
Spawn state = "BRIDGE1"
See state = "NULL"
Pain state = "NULL"
Melee state = "NULL"
Missile state = "NULL"
Death state = "NULL"
Xdeath state = "NULL"
Raise state = "NULL"
See sound = "None"
Attack sound = "None"
Pain sound = "None"
Death sound = "None"
Active sound = "None"
Reaction time = 8

Radius = 52
Height = 13
Mass = 100

Flags = "mf_solid mf_local mf_shootable mf_nogravity mf_noblood"
}

#

---

# STATE DEFINITIONS

State {
ID = "BRIDGE1"
Sprite = "CAND"
Frame = 0
Tics = -1
Next state = "NULL"
}
Use the above then attach your model to your new THING. Put your bridge THING where you want it but raise the floor of sector it's in to the height you want your bridge at. Then at the start of the level drop the height of the "support" sector back down to the floor.

Or you can spawn them via XG at the correct z height and not bother with the support sector.

You will have to tweak the height + radius of the thing to that of your bridge.

Of course I have no idea if that info is still valid, and it doesn't make a lot of sense out of context. Regardless, if you can't find this "Jdoom Arena" thread or any other "3d floor in Doomsday" discussions of use on NewDoom, i'll upload my saved threads for you to gobble up if you wish.

EDIT: Psych, if you're considering getting back into mapping, i'm certain you've heard about what's comming in Beta 7 right? So... hold your horses I reckon so, it'll save a lot of headaches probably ;D

DaniJ

Psychikon wrote:

I was curious as to whether or not maps will be drawn up completely different, or if they will still be the same Doom maps, just with a ton of modifying line and sector types and stuff? For instance, whenever the "floor over floor" and/or sloped floors thing is achieved; that is to say, a true 3D environment instead of true 3D rendering of a 2D environment.

We haven't even begun to consider the implementation of "room over room". Preliminary work for sloped sector planes has begun but hasn't progressed much recently. In other words, its too early to say how this will trickle down to effect actual map creation. When we do get around to it though, most likely it will feature in the Doomsday internal map format only rather than WAD (or UDMF for that matter). Thus meaning that to use 3D floors in a user map the Doomsday internal map editor will be used.

Work on the new Doomsday map format started pretty soon after the engine gained it's own internal node builder. The new map format is a fundamental part of the 2.0 architecture and the first implementation of which will most likely feature in the 1.9.0-beta7 release.